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Old January 31 2012, 09:21 AM   #46
saturn5
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
If Buffy was really concerned with money, she could have at least tried to get a bartending job at The Bronze. Hot female bartenders make bank, though I suppose the late hours would probably cut into her normal slaying routine.
Plus Barney Stinson would hot on her all the time
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Old January 31 2012, 09:23 AM   #47
saturn5
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Angel never really got off the ground or found a direction - it was hamstrung by Boreanaz's very clear limits.
Wow. I thought Angel got off the ground with the very first episode, and the story and character arcs were absolutely fantastic. Boreanaz isn't the best actor in the world, I agree, but I think he played the part great.
I think David got a lot better ove time although his Irish accent is still unforgiveable (although not as bad as that guy from Glee)
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Old January 31 2012, 09:25 AM   #48
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

stonester1 wrote: View Post
Ethros wrote: View Post
That's a bit of a strange comment, in that not every single attractive girl will become a supermodel or starlet just for being hot. You see hot girls all the time and think "nice, she's hot" and then forget it. Yet if she suddenly became the star of a TV show, or was in a big movie, or became a pop star, she'd easily be appearing in these "Sexiest women on the planet" polls. Look at the most the girls in something like the FHM Top 100, most of them aren't that special.
Exactly. Out in the real world, hot girls are very common. They even work behind fast food counters. The difference between them and those on TV and FHM...is that they aren't on TV or in FHM.
Wow, where do you go for fast food?
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Old January 31 2012, 02:00 PM   #49
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

^ I went on holiday to Berlin last year, where like in a lot of places in Europe I've been to, ugly people almost seem to not to exist. Some of the girls who worked in McDonalds there were amazingly hot


ReadyAndWilling wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
I would say Buffy is the better show not least because it simply has more eps.
is this serious? so i guess voyager is better than DS9 and TOS because it has more eps.
Just to be a big nerd, but DS9 had more episodes than VOY
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Old January 31 2012, 02:45 PM   #50
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

sonak wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post


The "Xander is supposed to be a loser in high school even though nobody who looks like Nicholas Brendon would be" thing always amused me. Joss even addressed it in a commentary track, basically saying "that's television."
Yeah, if you've ever watched the unaired pilot they had this girl as Willow;


and they replaced her with this girl


The 11th sexiest woman in the world according to FHM readers. It is a cliche, one reason I'm always amused by the thought of a girl who looks like Buffy having to work in fast food in season 6. The Last Action Hero has a great gag based on this (about the only one in the film)

I don't think the issue was so much her job, but how supposedly "socially awkward" she was supposed to be, and her "trouble" finding boyfriends.

Yeah, they tried to explain it away by having it be about her being a juvenile delinquent and stuff, but still-that's why premises like "the freshman" just made me laugh-a woman who looks like Sarah Michelle Gellar is going to have an awkward time in college?

riiiiiight.
BtVS was as unrealistic as any other US TV show when it comes to the actors playing high school students, since they were all (including the extras) obviously not teenagers, an too many of them were good-looking. But that's US TV for you.

However, the idea that any good-looking person is going to be 'popular' in school just isn't true in my experience. Attractive girls can have a very bad/awkward time in high school (especially if they're seen one of the following: geeky, nerdy, socially awkward, 'crazy', freaky, weird and so on) or in college. And while most high school losers don't look like Nick Brendon, personality and behavior is super-important in high school, more so than looks. I've known boys like Xander and they were never considered very attractive in high school, because many high school girls are attracted just to guys who seem more mature and cooler.

And no, not all attractive women become supermodels or movie stars. (And for starters, you usually need to be tall and have specific proportions to be a model, and someone still has to scout you and give you a job and not just try to get into your pants.) Comments like these are just weird, I gotta wonder what world you guys live in? Pretty young women are dime a dozen, do you really think they don't struggle to find jobs? Why do you think women who work as strippers 'chose' that job, not to mention the prostitutes, because they just really like it so much and they didn't want to be supermodels?

"Where would you see an attractive girl like SMG work as a waitress", uh, everywhere? I can't remember the last time I've seen an unattractive waitress.

As for Alyson Hannigan replacing Riff Regan, they didn't replace her because they wanted someone prettier, they replaced her because Riff Regan was bland and wooden in the role, and Alyson was miles better, which is obvious if you take a look at the unaired pilot. Joss said that Alyson played Willow differently from everyone else - the lines that others would read in a gloomy way, she would read in a cheerful way. Alyson really made that role.
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Old January 31 2012, 03:37 PM   #51
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

ReadyAndWilling wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
If Buffy was really concerned with money, she could have at least tried to get a bartending job at The Bronze. Hot female bartenders make bank, though I suppose the late hours would probably cut into her normal slaying routine.
i find this a highly sexist remark. so i guess all good looking women should just become strippers right?

and people wonder why the geek culture is seen as such an outcast.
Hot bartenders make more money than ugly bartenders. It's not sexist; it's a fact of the industry.

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
I didn't realize that bartenders also double as strippers. Rojohen, is there something you're not telling us?
If my old bar had a stripper pole, I may have done a little dancey dance while I was working.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
If Buffy was really concerned with money, she could have at least tried to get a bartending job at The Bronze. Hot female bartenders make bank, though I suppose the late hours would probably cut into her normal slaying routine.
Plus Barney Stinson would hot on her all the time
"Nobody can ever bang a slayer."
"Challenge accepted!"
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Old January 31 2012, 03:56 PM   #52
sonak
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post

Yeah, if you've ever watched the unaired pilot they had this girl as Willow;


and they replaced her with this girl


The 11th sexiest woman in the world according to FHM readers. It is a cliche, one reason I'm always amused by the thought of a girl who looks like Buffy having to work in fast food in season 6. The Last Action Hero has a great gag based on this (about the only one in the film)

I don't think the issue was so much her job, but how supposedly "socially awkward" she was supposed to be, and her "trouble" finding boyfriends.

Yeah, they tried to explain it away by having it be about her being a juvenile delinquent and stuff, but still-that's why premises like "the freshman" just made me laugh-a woman who looks like Sarah Michelle Gellar is going to have an awkward time in college?

riiiiiight.
BtVS was as unrealistic as any other US TV show when it comes to the actors playing high school students, since they were all (including the extras) obviously not teenagers, an too many of them were good-looking. But that's US TV for you.

However, the idea that any good-looking person is going to be 'popular' in school just isn't true in my experience. Attractive girls can have a very bad/awkward time in high school (especially if they're seen one of the following: geeky, nerdy, socially awkward, 'crazy', freaky, weird and so on) or in college. And while most high school losers don't look like Nick Brendon, personality and behavior is super-important in high school, more so than looks. I've known boys like Xander and they were never considered very attractive in high school, because many high school girls are attracted just to guys who seem more mature and cooler.

And no, not all attractive women become supermodels or movie stars. (And for starters, you usually need to be tall and have specific proportions to be a model, and someone still has to scout you and give you a job and not just try to get into your pants.) Comments like these are just weird, I gotta wonder what world you guys live in? Pretty young women are dime a dozen, do you really think they don't struggle to find jobs? Why do you think women who work as strippers 'chose' that job, not to mention the prostitutes, because they just really like it so much and they didn't want to be supermodels?

"Where would you see an attractive girl like SMG work as a waitress", uh, everywhere? I can't remember the last time I've seen an unattractive waitress.

As for Alyson Hannigan replacing Riff Regan, they didn't replace her because they wanted someone prettier, they replaced her because Riff Regan was bland and wooden in the role, and Alyson was miles better, which is obvious if you take a look at the unaired pilot. Joss said that Alyson played Willow differently from everyone else - the lines that others would read in a gloomy way, she would read in a cheerful way. Alyson really made that role.

Maybe I had a radically different high school and college experience from many others, but none of the real social outcasts at those places were of the very attractive type. Yes, they weren't all freakishly ugly or somnething, and there were average-looking popular folks, but I've never encountered a truly "hot" person who wasn't at least fairly popular or who had trouble finding dates.

This isn't all a subjective thing-they've done studies that prove that attractive people are looked on more favorably, do have an easier time finding jobs, getting dates(this part would be obvious), etc. It's just the way society is.
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Old January 31 2012, 05:36 PM   #53
saturn5
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
ReadyAndWilling wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
If Buffy was really concerned with money, she could have at least tried to get a bartending job at The Bronze. Hot female bartenders make bank, though I suppose the late hours would probably cut into her normal slaying routine.
i find this a highly sexist remark. so i guess all good looking women should just become strippers right?

and people wonder why the geek culture is seen as such an outcast.
Hot bartenders make more money than ugly bartenders. It's not sexist; it's a fact of the industry.


If my old bar had a stripper pole, I may have done a little dancey dance while I was working.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
If Buffy was really concerned with money, she could have at least tried to get a bartending job at The Bronze. Hot female bartenders make bank, though I suppose the late hours would probably cut into her normal slaying routine.
Plus Barney Stinson would hot on her all the time
"Nobody can ever bang a slayer."
"Challenge accepted!"
I hope you have a garden because that is tree-mendous!
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Old January 31 2012, 10:05 PM   #54
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

sonak wrote: View Post
DevilEyes wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post


I don't think the issue was so much her job, but how supposedly "socially awkward" she was supposed to be, and her "trouble" finding boyfriends.

Yeah, they tried to explain it away by having it be about her being a juvenile delinquent and stuff, but still-that's why premises like "the freshman" just made me laugh-a woman who looks like Sarah Michelle Gellar is going to have an awkward time in college?

riiiiiight.
BtVS was as unrealistic as any other US TV show when it comes to the actors playing high school students, since they were all (including the extras) obviously not teenagers, an too many of them were good-looking. But that's US TV for you.

However, the idea that any good-looking person is going to be 'popular' in school just isn't true in my experience. Attractive girls can have a very bad/awkward time in high school (especially if they're seen one of the following: geeky, nerdy, socially awkward, 'crazy', freaky, weird and so on) or in college. And while most high school losers don't look like Nick Brendon, personality and behavior is super-important in high school, more so than looks. I've known boys like Xander and they were never considered very attractive in high school, because many high school girls are attracted just to guys who seem more mature and cooler.

And no, not all attractive women become supermodels or movie stars. (And for starters, you usually need to be tall and have specific proportions to be a model, and someone still has to scout you and give you a job and not just try to get into your pants.) Comments like these are just weird, I gotta wonder what world you guys live in? Pretty young women are dime a dozen, do you really think they don't struggle to find jobs? Why do you think women who work as strippers 'chose' that job, not to mention the prostitutes, because they just really like it so much and they didn't want to be supermodels?

"Where would you see an attractive girl like SMG work as a waitress", uh, everywhere? I can't remember the last time I've seen an unattractive waitress.

As for Alyson Hannigan replacing Riff Regan, they didn't replace her because they wanted someone prettier, they replaced her because Riff Regan was bland and wooden in the role, and Alyson was miles better, which is obvious if you take a look at the unaired pilot. Joss said that Alyson played Willow differently from everyone else - the lines that others would read in a gloomy way, she would read in a cheerful way. Alyson really made that role.

Maybe I had a radically different high school and college experience from many others, but none of the real social outcasts at those places were of the very attractive type. Yes, they weren't all freakishly ugly or somnething, and there were average-looking popular folks, but I've never encountered a truly "hot" person who wasn't at least fairly popular or who had trouble finding dates.

This isn't all a subjective thing-they've done studies that prove that attractive people are looked on more favorably, do have an easier time finding jobs, getting dates(this part would be obvious), etc. It's just the way society is.
Dates, I'm sure, but not so much in high school, in my experience... I was considered attractive in high school but none of the boys from my school ever asked me out... I was told by someone I had a reputation of being 'unapproachable' which is funny since they didn't even try to approach me. But then, most of the boys from my school were hardly good at approaching girls unless you count things like ogling, whistling and shouting after you in front of everyone. And since people started thinking I was attractive, that just earned me hate and malice from some jealous girls, including a Cordelia-type, and their followers, and a lot of annoying sexual comments (of the pre-coming out Larry kind) from a rather pathetic guy who was acting like the class bully (he never physically bullied anyone since he was too much of a coward, but he always insulted people and made annoying comments in front of everyone).

This whole idea how being a good-looking girl makes everything peachy, that's a myth.

I'm not even sure what "fairly popular" means... Most people in high school are liked by someone, and nobody is actually liked by everyone, it's just that some people manage to convince everyone that they this special status because they're cool, rich, etc.

But jobs - somewhat, I mean I'm sure that it plays some role, together with how you dress and how you speak and whether they like the things you say at an interview. But looks as the crucial thing for gaining a job? I don't think so (unless someone is asking you to sleep with them to get a job ), and furthermore, there are lots of attractive people out there, and for every job that requires good looks (like modelling, acting etc.), there will be more attractive people applying.
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Old February 1 2012, 01:15 AM   #55
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

I was a teenager when Buffy was on the air, so the high school thing I could always relate to. I know several men who have told me exactly the same thing you posted here, and I totally get that.

I'm a big Angel fan, too. Fred/Illyria and Lorne are two of my favourite television characters from any show... ever. But there is something about Buffy that places it above Angel, for me. I love the relationship between Buffy and Giles, the sort of father-daughter thing. Growing up without a real father figure, I always wished I had someone like that in my life. Also... Willow. I adore Willow. I guess I am just in love with the entire cast. Sure, there are a few episodes/characters here and there that I could do without... but not that many.

Angel got a bit too sad for my liking, near the end. I'm guessing you've all seen it so I'm not spoiling anything. They killed off three of my favourite characters, and while it made the story interesting, that's just something that made me hate it just a little. Can't tell you the tears I've cried, watching that show.
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Old February 1 2012, 03:55 PM   #56
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

Lumi wrote: View Post
I was a teenager when Buffy was on the air, so the high school thing I could always relate to. I know several men who have told me exactly the same thing you posted here, and I totally get that.

I'm a big Angel fan, too. Fred/Illyria and Lorne are two of my favourite television characters from any show... ever. But there is something about Buffy that places it above Angel, for me. I love the relationship between Buffy and Giles, the sort of father-daughter thing. Growing up without a real father figure, I always wished I had someone like that in my life. Also... Willow. I adore Willow. I guess I am just in love with the entire cast. Sure, there are a few episodes/characters here and there that I could do without... but not that many.

Angel got a bit too sad for my liking, near the end. I'm guessing you've all seen it so I'm not spoiling anything. They killed off three of my favourite characters, and while it made the story interesting, that's just something that made me hate it just a little. Can't tell you the tears I've cried, watching that show.
I guess I can see that, but I don't view it as sad, they went down as heroes, striking a blow against evil, fully aware of what they were doing. But yeah, I guess Fred's death was sad. That's just Joss being Joss, though. And it gave us the great scene in "not fade away:"

"would you like me to lie to you now?"
"yes, thank you, yes."

and
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Old February 1 2012, 04:20 PM   #57
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

As sad as I was that Fred died, I thought Illyria was a fantastic character and a worthy replacement. I would have been a lot more upset if Amy Acker had left the show entirely.
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Old February 1 2012, 04:25 PM   #58
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
As sad as I was that Fred died, I thought Illyria was a fantastic character and a worthy replacement. I would have been a lot more upset if Amy Acker had left the show entirely.
Yup, I loved the character of Illyria, I wish we'd gotten a 6th season even just for her and her interaction with Spike.
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Old February 1 2012, 05:06 PM   #59
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

Oh, don't get me wrong, I loved Illyria. But Fred was just so sweet. And they didn't just make her die, Illyria destroyed her entire soul... so there was never a chance of her coming back in any way, like there should be with sci-fi/fantasy shows. I was so depressed, lol.
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Old February 1 2012, 05:10 PM   #60
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Re: Why I've Come To Like "Angel" Better than "Buffy"

Lumi wrote: View Post
Oh, don't get me wrong, I loved Illyria. But Fred was just so sweet. And they didn't just make her die, Illyria destroyed her entire soul... so there was never a chance of her coming back in any way, like there should be with sci-fi/fantasy shows. I was so depressed, lol.
Only the Gatekeeper made that claim, and he wasn't infallible as we soon learned, Illyria said herself Fred's memories and feelings bled into her concious mind from time to time and implied Fred lived on in some way 'imprinted' on Illyria.

Season 6 was going to explore that and show that both of them existed in the same body, and try to separate the two out again.

The comics sort of explored it but not in the same way but Fred still exists and can, someday/how, be extracted.
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