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Old January 28 2012, 07:31 AM   #46
Wingsley
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Forbin wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April said:
SonicRanger said:
This is the dreadnought to me:

http://www.well.com/~sjroby/lcars/images/TOS/dread1.jpg



It's the USS Stopsign!!
It would be neat to see either a 3D/CGI rendering of this, or an actual hand-built model. Ever consider it, Forbin?
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Old January 28 2012, 06:27 PM   #47
sojourner
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Based on his remark you quoted and the age of this thread? No.
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Old January 28 2012, 07:55 PM   #48
Forbin
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Yeah, no, it's really ugly (IMHO).
But it might be fun to build one, paint the saucer red, and put "USS STOP" on it.
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Old January 28 2012, 10:03 PM   #49
Wingsley
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

What if you devitated from the original "design" and used a rounded saucer?
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Old January 28 2012, 10:28 PM   #50
Ziz
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

The whole thing is too angular. It looks like it was drawn by someone who was afraid of drawing curves so they tried to justify it by not making any more circles than were absolutely necessary.
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Old January 28 2012, 10:57 PM   #51
JES
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Agreed. I think she looks fugly, especially with not all eight sides at least being even. She is just an example of why it is a bad idea to make the all of the bow sides of a saucer flat instead, especially if the front is flat. If not for the fact that the saucer wasn't actually a saucer, she might not look bad, but all of those flat faces ruins it for me!
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Old January 28 2012, 11:58 PM   #52
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Forbin wrote: View Post
For my money, a refit DN would have to have the same features as the FJ DN - larger primary and secondary hulls, and foreward-mounted shuttlebay. Note that the FJ DN's primary hull has no undercut, and a "dome" shape that is equal top and bottom. To be true to the concept, one would have to create whole new parts from scratch!
Has there been any rendering of a "refit" that had that mirrored top & bottom of the primary hull?

That's the first thing that stands out to me.

Everything I've ever seen is a TMP refit saucer.
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Old January 29 2012, 04:33 PM   #53
Forbin
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post

Has there been any rendering of a "refit" that had that mirrored top & bottom of the primary hull?

That's the first thing that stands out to me.
Kinda - I used the tops of two Reliants for this:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbas...page_lion.html



Schematic:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/wallpa...p-1920-021.jpg
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Old January 29 2012, 07:15 PM   #54
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Forbin wrote: View Post
Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post

Has there been any rendering of a "refit" that had that mirrored top & bottom of the primary hull?

That's the first thing that stands out to me.
Kinda - I used the tops of two Reliants for this:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbas...page_lion.html



Schematic:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/wallpa...p-1920-021.jpg
Well, as long as somebody did it the right way. Did you name it USS Teh Awesome?
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Old January 29 2012, 08:03 PM   #55
Wingsley
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

One issue stands out for me:

All of these kitbashes and other artistic derivatives, that people present as dreadnought-starships, seem to sport more weapons, more nacelles, and often more bulk, but there doesn't seem to be any more tangible protection. I point this out because one of the key features of Sisko's Defiant was a coating of ablative armor (whatever that was) wrapped around a simple hull design, like a turtle in a shell. Everything about Sisko's Defiant seemed non-standard. (Quantum torpedoes, armor shell, compact size, lack of standard Federation starship amenities, somewhat unorthodox nacelle configuration) By comparison, most dreadnought artwork by fans and FJ seems to use standard Federation components. Even the hulls look like they were derived for non-dreadnought starships. This seems to be universally true of all these fan designs, even my personal favorite (the relatively unconventional Kirov by Aridas Sofia).

Why doesn't someone take the notions of Sisko's Defiant and apply them to the pre-TOS, TOS/TAS or TMP era to see what a heavily armored prototype Federation battlewagon would look like?
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Old January 30 2012, 03:55 PM   #56
aridas sofia
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

I think I can explain that pretty easily, at least from my own perspective. I thought of the standard starship components as adding up to mid to long range/endurance, mixed use starships. That saucer is there to house lots of people that almost always include a contingent of researchers doing on-site work. But there would be another type of ship- a warship- that would have very different priorities and have a very small crew. Its range and endurance would be short-medium. No saucer. Just raw shields, speed and weaponry, in differing proportions as the design demands.

So, when you see the FJ dreadnought, I'm thinking "this is as good as we can get for projecting power over long distances within a mixed-use starship hull". For the Federation and Starfleet, getting all those researchers way out on the frontier to figure out what really is out there (and might eventually develop into a threat or opportunity) must be as important as having no nonsense, fail safe weaponry closer to home.
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Old January 30 2012, 07:29 PM   #57
JJohnson
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Why a rear-facing deflector dish? Wouldn't a shuttlebay make more sense?
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Old January 30 2012, 07:52 PM   #58
sojourner
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

^Do you recall how many times the Ent-D used the deflector for something other than it's intended purpose? Not a bad idea to have one rear-facing.
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Old January 30 2012, 08:11 PM   #59
Forbin
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

JJohnson wrote: View Post
Why a rear-facing deflector dish? Wouldn't a shuttlebay make more sense?
You mean...
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbas...age_soryu.html

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Old January 30 2012, 08:16 PM   #60
Forbin
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Re: Refit Dreadnought.... Question?

Wingsley wrote: View Post
One issue stands out for me:

All of these kitbashes and other artistic derivatives, that people present as dreadnought-starships, seem to sport more weapons, more nacelles, and often more bulk, but there doesn't seem to be any more tangible protection. I point this out because one of the key features of Sisko's Defiant was a coating of ablative armor (whatever that was) wrapped around a simple hull design, like a turtle in a shell. Everything about Sisko's Defiant seemed non-standard. (Quantum torpedoes, armor shell, compact size, lack of standard Federation starship amenities, somewhat unorthodox nacelle configuration) By comparison, most dreadnought artwork by fans and FJ seems to use standard Federation components. Even the hulls look like they were derived for non-dreadnought starships. This seems to be universally true of all these fan designs, even my personal favorite (the relatively unconventional Kirov by Aridas Sofia).

Why doesn't someone take the notions of Sisko's Defiant and apply them to the pre-TOS, TOS/TAS or TMP era to see what a heavily armored prototype Federation battlewagon would look like?
When you've got deflector shields, you can save mass and expense by NOT needing extensive armor plating.

Ablative armor means armor that dissipates energy by allowing itself to be worn away or blown away. That of course means it has to be re-applied after every battle. That's yard time.
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