Does It Get Better???

[Guy Gardener]

The thing to remember is that the DS9 sets were pulped, stolen and sold the day after production wrapped on the final episode.

They had a window and it closed, even if it was open when Message in a Bottle aired.

[tighr]

Guy Gardener wrote:

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The thing to remember is that the DS9 sets were pulped, stolen and sold the day after production wrapped on the final episode.

They had a window and it closed, even if it was open when Message in a Bottle aired.

Message in a Bottle aired during season 6 of Deep Space Nine. They had another season and a half to do a crossover, if they wanted to.

I maintain that they didn't want to, and it wasn't needed.

exodus wrote:

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Without ruining it for the OP, there were 4 cameos by TNG cast members in Voy.
Riker in "Deathwish" was the first. So being out of production did mean anything.

I read your spoiler, but I was mainly speculating that an appearance by the Enterprise-E would have made more sense than an appearance by DS9 or any of it's crew.

[exodus]

tighr wrote:

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Message in a Bottle aired during season 6 of Deep Space Nine. They had another season and a half to do a crossover, if they wanted to.

I maintain that they didn't want to, and it wasn't needed.

I read your spoiler, but I was mainly speculating that an appearance by the Enterprise-E would have made more sense than an appearance by DS9 or any of it's crew.

Trust me, I wasn't disagreeing with you.
Just adding on to what you already said.

[AdmiralScreed]

Retrospect: A good episode with a lesson about pursuing the truth and not coming to a conclusion until you have ample evidence. Kovin's death was tragic, even if he was a bit of an ass. I like how Tuvok was completely impartial, unlike the rest of the crew who almost immediately jumped to 7's defense against Kovin. The Doctor and 7 both saw some nice development. A solid episode.
6/10

[Harvey]

I like that they start that episode looking to buy some weapons to fight the Hirogen (even if they don't end up doing so). It's a nice nod to continuity.

[AdmiralScreed]

DonIago wrote:

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Except it kind of does given that one of the main plot points of MiaB is Voyager establishing contact with the Federation for the first time since the show began.

Exactly. With Voyager contacting the Alpha Quadrant they had the chance to do something really spectacular. Since DS9 was in the middle of season 6 at the time MIAB aired, they had the chance to tie some of the VOY cast into a Dominion War story. The possibilities for what they could have done were endless. But instead of doing a DS9/VOY Dominion War episode they just decided to settle for a comedy. Not a bad comedy by any means, but still just a comedy.

[AdmiralScreed]

Harvey wrote:

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I like that they start that episode looking to buy some weapons to fight the Hirogen (even if they don't end up doing so). It's a nice nod to continuity.

Agreed. I hope they keep the story arcs going. I'm really liking the Hirogen and I hope that there are more episodes featuring them to come.

BTW, it's been quite a while since we've seen the Vidiians. Are they ever going to return to the show?

Another completely random question: Why is Harry Kim a senior officer? I'm sure there are plenty of other SF officers that outrank him, and yet none of them are senior officers. What makes Harry so special? This is something that's been bothering me for quite some time. I've just kept forgetting to ask you folks on Trekbbs. Hopefully one of you experts can shed some light on this.

[Harvey]

AdmiralScreed wrote:

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Agreed. I hope they keep the story arcs going. I'm really liking the Hirogen and I hope that there are more episodes featuring them to come.

The next episode more or less wraps up their arc, although the writers find a way to bring them back a couple of times later one.

BTW, it's been quite a while since we've seen the Vidiians. Are they ever going to return to the show?

Only in an episode that flashes back to the early seasons, according to Memory Alpha (I certainly can't remember any others). For all intents and purposes, they're done.

Another completely random question: Why is Harry Kim a senior officer? I'm sure there are plenty of other SF officers that outrank him, and yet none of them are senior officers. What makes Harry so special? This is something that's been bothering me for quite some time. I've just kept forgetting to ask you folks on Trekbbs. Hopefully one of you experts can shed some light on this.

Harry graduated at the top of his class. As a result, he got a choice assignment -- a position on the senior staff right out of the Academy. He's still an Ensign, though.

[Guy Gardener]

Tighr, try reading my bollocks again, I'm never clear enough.

Harry is a section head Screed.

he's in charge of Operations, which is that seat he sits in on the bridge, and all the noncommissioned crewmen assigned to work under him, or round robin shifts with him at the post. He's even in charge of the tourists who outrank him, but feel like slumming in Ops to get the end around on any staffing fatigue.

The smallest section on the smallest ship.

It's about the only way some one that green could get his own section.

Voyager got lost on Harry's first day of his first posting.

It's almost impossible that any one has less seniority than he does.

Putting a higher ranked officer in charge of Operations is a waste of that officers capabilities, but... Harry is in charge of the promotions process of all the crewmen working under him in collaboration with the XO and ships counsellor every 6 months.

(Do you think Harry rallied against Janeway to promote any of his staff?)

If Harry got promoted to Lt jg, he wouldn't be allowed to be the section head of operations, and would no longer be a senior officer. He would be part of a crowd of Lt jgs working under a Lt in some other part of the ship being of no importance whatsoever to the command structure.

[Gep Malakai]

Harvey wrote:

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Harry graduated at the top of his class.

Really? Too bad he shows, like, zero evidence of it over the course of the series.

[tighr]

Gep Malakai wrote:

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Really? Too bad he shows, like, zero evidence of it over the course of the series.

He actually shows evidence of it in the very next episode that Screed will be watching. He is a very capable engineer.

[tighr]

AdmiralScreed wrote:

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Exactly. With Voyager contacting the Alpha Quadrant they had the chance to do something really spectacular.

It's not as if Message in a Bottle is the last episode of the series, there are 3.5 seasons left to go. Plenty of time to do something that you would consider "spectacular". And I don't want to spoil anything, but since you keep bringing it up, this will not be the last time they contact the Alpha Quadrant, not by a long-shot.

[You_Will_Fail]

Harvey wrote:

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I like that they start that episode looking to buy some weapons to fight the Hirogen (even if they don't end up doing so). It's a nice nod to continuity.

Although to be fair, its really just a drop in the ocean. Voyager should have been doing stuff like this FAR more often.

Retrospect was a good episode though with a great ending.

[Guy Gardener]

tighr wrote:

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He actually shows evidence of it in the very next episode that Screed will be watching. He is a very capable engineer.

Most of the enlisted crew are probably better engineers, and most of the officers who out rank Harry are not engineers.

Being a good engineer means "little".

Being an officer is about telling people what to do well and doing what you're told well. It's about being an exemplary part of the machine. The machine of course is the millions of tons of flesh working the Federation Fleet.

[Harvey]

You_Will_Fail wrote:

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Although to be fair, its really just a drop in the ocean. Voyager should have been doing stuff like this FAR more often.

Certainly. It speaks volumes that a small piece of dialogue like this would stick in my mind because the series so rarely mentioned events outside of the episode of the moment.