RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,237
Posts: 5,438,666
Members: 24,958
Currently online: 651
Newest member: greatmovies

TrekToday headlines

Cumberbatch In Wax
By: T'Bonz on Oct 24

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 29 2012, 12:30 AM   #736
AdmiralScreed
Captain
 
AdmiralScreed's Avatar
 
Re: Does It Get Better???

exodus wrote: View Post
AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Exactly.
No, not "exactly."

You folks are satisfied waaay too easily. Can't you see things for they could have been? What they SHOULD have been? This episode could have been completely epic, but instead they just do another humor episode with the Doctor. A good episode, I will admit, but nowhere near as grand and exciting as it could have been.
Didn't you say when you started these reviews that you'd be open minded to others ideas and opinions even if they didn't agree with yours? It doesn't sound like your keeping true to you're own words right now.

That being said, no I do NOT agree with your opinion and/or point of view.
Alright, alright. You got me there. My apologies if I offended you. I'm just having a difficult time wrapping my head around why you folks think a DS9 crossover would be such a terrible idea. Please enlighten me.
__________________
Aim For The Stars...
AdmiralScreed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 03:58 AM   #737
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: Does It Get Better???

Before I could offer an opinion on a potential DS9 crossover I'd need more details as to how you'd recommend modifying the episode to accommodate such, rather than just saying "they could have done more". What more could they have done?

That being said, any argument that the DS9 folks were too busy with the war or weren't in the right location is, I think, purely arbitrary. There's no reason the Prometheus couldn't have been somewhere else, and while I love DS9 they certainly seemed to not infrequently have episodes during the war that still had little to do with it.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 04:19 AM   #738
You_Will_Fail
Fleet Captain
 
You_Will_Fail's Avatar
 
Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud
Re: Does It Get Better???

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
I'm just having a difficult time wrapping my head around why you folks think a DS9 crossover would be such a terrible idea. Please enlighten me.
A crossover does not make something automatically good. Good writing, acting and direction makes something good and "Message in a Bottle" had that in spades. How would the humor or meaning of the episode be improved if Jadzia and Quark had randomly showed up for 5 seconds? "Birthright Part I" had a crossover with DS9 and it wasn't a particularly good episode because the story wasn't that interesting and the writing wasn't that arresting either.

The writers of this episode obviously came up with an idea where our doctor would interact with a snooty EMH Mk II and co-operate with him to save a Federation ship occupied by Romulans. That was the story concept and actually a very unique and solid one so they made the episode. I don't see an episode being much better if they'd started out with the concept "Let's shoehorn a DS9 crossover in somehow".

If they'd wanted a DS9 crossover, they would have come up with a suitable storyline.

On a related note. One of my Voyager story ideas would have Harry Kim in a shuttle sucked into an unstable one-way wormhole back into the Alpha Quadrant. Once there, the task of finding a way to make the wormhole work both ways so a ship can be sent through to fetch Voyager is left in the hands of a science team and Harry is enlisted into the fleet to help in the war against the Dominion at its most hopeless stage. After a month of experiencing unimaginable destruction, death and dread (and maybe some DS9 crossover), he hears word that the team have succeeded in stabilizing the wormhole for two way travel. He steals a shuttle and heads into the wormhole before anyone else and once back in the Delta Quadrant, he destroys the wormhole, erases the shuttle logs and heads out to find Voyager again. The story would have given Harry some depth - he may be seen as a coward but also as someone who didn't want to see his Voyager family very likely destroyed in a war that the Feds seemed to be losing. Frankly, I think such a story would give Harry much needed depth. I'd rather see Harry be a coward than a cardboard cutout!
Any opinions on this story appreciated!!!!

DonIago wrote: View Post
There's no reason the Prometheus couldn't have been somewhere else, and while I love DS9 they certainly seemed to not infrequently have episodes during the war that still had little to do with it.
Looking at the geography of the Federation/galaxy whatever. The Prometheus is practically right up at the Beta quadrant if not in it. Thats geographically far from DS9.
__________________
My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y
My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys
You_Will_Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 04:45 AM   #739
tighr
Commodore
 
tighr's Avatar
 
Location: California
Re: Does It Get Better???

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
On a related note. One of my Voyager story ideas would have Harry Kim in a shuttle sucked into an unstable one-way wormhole back into the Alpha Quadrant. Once there, the task of finding a way to make the wormhole work both ways so a ship can be sent through to fetch Voyager is left in the hands of a science team and Harry is enlisted into the fleet to help in the war against the Dominion at its most hopeless stage. After a month of experiencing unimaginable destruction, death and dread (and maybe some DS9 crossover), he hears word that the team have succeeded in stabilizing the wormhole for two way travel. He steals a shuttle and heads into the wormhole before anyone else and once back in the Delta Quadrant, he destroys the wormhole, erases the shuttle logs and heads out to find Voyager again. The story would have given Harry some depth - he may be seen as a coward but also as someone who didn't want to see his Voyager family very likely destroyed in a war that the Feds seemed to be losing. Frankly, I think such a story would give Harry much needed depth. I'd rather see Harry be a coward than a cardboard cutout!
Any opinions on this story appreciated!!!!
We get a combination of this in Non Sequitor and Timeless, although Timeless is season 5 so the OP hasn't seen it yet.

I just don't agree with the need for a DS9 crossover story. We got the TOS crossover in Flashback, and there are going to be a few TNG crossovers that the OP hasn't gotten to yet (sorry for the spoiler, but its relevant to the conversation). We already got a DS9 crossover in the pilot episode. I just don't see the need for an episode to be set on DS9.
__________________
~Tighr™: Not helping the situation since 1983
tighr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 04:54 AM   #740
You_Will_Fail
Fleet Captain
 
You_Will_Fail's Avatar
 
Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud
Re: Does It Get Better???

Hmm I guess it has minor elements from both episodes. But I think its still a unique enough idea to stand on its own as an episode.
__________________
My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y
My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys
You_Will_Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 05:13 AM   #741
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Does It Get Better???

Mulgrew resented freshmeat on her soundstage insinuating that she wasn''t good enough to carry the show, just by being there, but Kate would clatter to the heavens if someone thought she couldn't stand on her own two feet with out the help of dinosaurs... Which I suppose is what happened anyway?

Frakes said in an interview recently that he could sense clearly his presence in the Enterprise Finale quite gutted Scotty.

Any one getting a MIrror Mirror vibe here?

I can just picture Mulgrew handing Dax a poisoned apple for being too pretty.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 05:16 AM   #742
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: Does It Get Better???

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
There's no reason the Prometheus couldn't have been somewhere else, and while I love DS9 they certainly seemed to not infrequently have episodes during the war that still had little to do with it.
Looking at the geography of the Federation/galaxy whatever. The Prometheus is practically right up at the Beta quadrant if not in it. Thats geographically far from DS9.
That's my point exactly. Where the Prometheus is in the episode is arbitrary.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 05:59 AM   #743
You_Will_Fail
Fleet Captain
 
You_Will_Fail's Avatar
 
Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud
Re: Does It Get Better???

DonIago wrote: View Post
That's my point exactly. Where the Prometheus is in the episode is arbitrary.
No its not, as the network of stations in the Delta Quadrant only reached up to the edge of the Delta Quadrant/maybe a bit into the Beta quadrant. DS9 was firmly in the alpha quadrant and quite a far bit away from the endpoint of those stations.
__________________
My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y
My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys
You_Will_Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 06:06 AM   #744
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: Does It Get Better???

Yes, and the location of the stations is to some extent equally arbitrary.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 06:26 AM   #745
You_Will_Fail
Fleet Captain
 
You_Will_Fail's Avatar
 
Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud
Re: Does It Get Better???

It wouldn't make much sense for the stations to pass so close to DS9 imo since that would mean passing right around the Federation.
__________________
My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y
My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys
You_Will_Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 10:38 AM   #746
WarpCore
Lieutenant
 
Re: Does It Get Better???

Is it worth mentioning that DS9 introduced cannon that prevents a decent EMH/DS9 crossover? The EMH would have been stuck in Quark's.

Doctor Bashir, I Presume
BASHIR: A holographic doctor can literally replace a starship's medical officer during an emergency.
ZIMMERMAN: I'm surprised you don't have one on the station.
SISKO: The station facilities are Cardassian in origin. Most of our equipment is incompatible with Federation technology.


And from The Search, Bashir doesn't make the Defiant's sickbay sound as advanced as the average SF except for its battle systems. No mention of holo-emiters until they use the silly communication one for all of 2 episodes.

IMO, any attempt of a Voyager/DS9 crossover would come off forced or simply bad if they resorted to all holograms. I guess Q could have done it and pit the two crews against each other in some silly scenario. Might as well add send Picard, Bateson, Kirk, and Garrett invites at that point.
WarpCore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 03:25 PM   #747
AdmiralScreed
Captain
 
AdmiralScreed's Avatar
 
Re: Does It Get Better???

Hunters: A good follow up to Message In a Bottle. We learn more about the Hirogen, and the relay station is used to retrieve messages from the Alpha Quadrant. I thought the B-Plot with the letters was very moving, but also quite sad. Chakotay discovers that the Dominion have wiped out the Maquis, Janeway discovers that her fiance has married another women, and Paris isn't able to retrieve the letter from his father.
I also enjoyed the scenes on the Hirogen ship.
No complaints.
7/10

Prey: A great follow-up to Hunters. The star of this episode, IMO, was Seven of Nine. I loved her attitude and the way she disobeyed Janeway's orders in order to save the ship. Right now I think she's one of the most multidimensional characters on the show. She doesn't blindly follow Janeway's like everyone else. She thinks for herself, speaks her mind, and if she thinks the captain is wrong she takes action.
8/10
__________________
Aim For The Stars...
AdmiralScreed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 03:38 PM   #748
AdmiralScreed
Captain
 
AdmiralScreed's Avatar
 
Re: Does It Get Better???

DonIago wrote: View Post
Before I could offer an opinion on a potential DS9 crossover I'd need more details as to how you'd recommend modifying the episode to accommodate such, rather than just saying "they could have done more". What more could they have done?
Truth is, I'm not much of a writer. But if they'd gotten the DS9 and VOY writers together I am sure they could have come up with something golden.

@ You_Will_Fail, when I suggested a DS9/VOY crossover I was not implying just a quick cameo by Quark or Jadzia. I meant a story that makes good use of both casts. Actually, another idea I had was to just do a Dominion War episode on Voyager. Somehow the Doctor or some of the other VOY characters become involved in a struggle between the Federation and the Dominion. Don't ask me how, I'm no writer, but in capable hands I think it could have worked.
__________________
Aim For The Stars...
AdmiralScreed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 05:39 PM   #749
You_Will_Fail
Fleet Captain
 
You_Will_Fail's Avatar
 
Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud
Re: Does It Get Better???

Well as I've said "Message in a Bottle" is its own story, it never claimed it would feature the Dominion or DS9 so being disappointed it didn't makes no sense to me.

RE: Hunters- its a good episode but not great, there's something about Jeri Taylor's writing that is really quite middle of the road, she rarely ever bangs it out of the park.
I'm disappointed that they cut the Janeway/Chakotay kissing scene from this episode that was supposed to lead to their romance. Janeway desperately needed humanizing in this show and a relationship would have been a good way to do that.

RE: Prey - on of Trek's finest episodes. The conflict between Janeway and Seven is something the show has really lacked in the first three seasons due to far too much safe storytelling. Seven finally brought some conflict and another point of view, when that should have been the Maquis all along. Good to see her face up to Janeway and openly disagree "And you will fail" and a fantastic ending. Janeway is basically pwned by Seven at the end.
__________________
My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y
My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys
You_Will_Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29 2012, 06:04 PM   #750
AdmiralScreed
Captain
 
AdmiralScreed's Avatar
 
Re: Does It Get Better???

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Well as I've said "Message in a Bottle" is its own story, it never claimed it would feature the Dominion or DS9 so being disappointed it didn't makes no sense to me.
And as its own story I think that it is merely good, not great. IMO, a DS9/Voy crossover would have been much more interesting. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
__________________
Aim For The Stars...
AdmiralScreed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
improve season one better

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:56 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.