Does It Get Better??? - Page 49

You_Will_Fail · January 28 2012, 07:30 PM

Exactly. It would have made the episode worse if they'd just inexplicably tacked on a few DS9 characters who shouldnt have even been anywhere near the area anyway.

AdmiralScreed · January 28 2012, 08:43 PM

The episode could have been rewritten so that the DS9 characters were integral to the plot. They had the opportunity to make something really special with this episode and they sort of blew it. The episode is fine as is, but it had the potential to be so much more. Just my opinion...

RoJoHen · January 28 2012, 09:23 PM

AdmiralScreed wrote:

The episode could have been rewritten so that the DS9 characters were integral to the plot. They had the opportunity to make something really special with this episode and they sort of blew it. The episode is fine as is, but it had the potential to be so much more. Just my opinion...

With that logic, we might as well re-write every single episode that had the potential to be "so much more." It's not like the writers planned a DS9 crossover and failed. The episode was never supposed to be a DS9 crossover in the first place.

And honestly, the crew of DS9 was a lot busier with other things (like, ya know, the war). The Defiant would have had no reason to be where the Prometheus was.

AdmiralScreed · January 28 2012, 09:44 PM

RoJoHen wrote:

With that logic, we might as well re-write every single episode that had the potential to be "so much more."

And what's wrong with doing that? Episodes that have the potential to be great SHOULD always be great. It's just that the quality of the writing doesn't always live up to the potential of the story idea, and that's why we get episodes like Message in a Bottle and Conspiracy; episodes that are good, but not as great as they should have been.

RoJoHen wrote:

It's not like the writers planned a DS9 crossover and failed. The episode was never supposed to be a DS9 crossover in the first place.

Doesn't change the fact that this could have, and should have, been an epic VOY/DS9 crossover.

RoJoHen wrote:

And honestly, the crew of DS9 was a lot busier with other things (like, ya know, the war). The Defiant would have had no reason to be where the Prometheus was.

A rewrite would solve this. Find a way to tie the Dominion War and/or the crew of DS9 into the story. If necessary, rewrite the entire story from the ground up. Not that hard to do when you think about it.

Harvey · January 28 2012, 10:10 PM

Honestly, I'm glad the episode wasn't a crossover with Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Can you imagine the writers doing justice to the concept? Better to do a comic romp, something much more in the arena of Star Trek: Voyager, than to attempt something serious.

You haven't gotten there yet, but in season five the series will make direct reference to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine in the episode "Extreme Risk" (although there are no character crossovers). The result is an utter failure.

tighr · January 28 2012, 10:39 PM

Harvey wrote:

You haven't gotten there yet, but in season five the series will make direct reference to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine in the episode "Extreme Risk" (although there are no character crossovers). The result is an utter failure.

To be honest, that episode is based on information we learn in the 4th season episode Hunters, which immediately follows Message in a Bottle.

So, if you're looking for your DS9 crossover, you're going to get it in the very next episode.

Harvey · January 28 2012, 10:43 PM

And if the writers of Star Trek: Voyager had any foresight or talent, the character beats in "Extreme Risk" would have either happened much earlier or been alluded to throughout the rest of season four. Alas, neither.

You_Will_Fail · January 28 2012, 11:05 PM

AdmiralScreed wrote:

The episode could have been rewritten so that the DS9 characters were integral to the plot. They had the opportunity to make something really special with this episode and they sort of blew it.

They didn't blow it. The concept they had was a complete one, the script was funny and well written and the actors performed well. Its absurd to say they blew it just because they had an episode that took place back in the Federation that didn't include DS9.

Guy Gardener · January 28 2012, 11:07 PM

Harvey wrote:

And if the writers of Star Trek: Voyager had any foresight or talent, the character beats in "Extreme Risk" would have either happened much earlier or been alluded to throughout the rest of season four. Alas, neither.

They probably had the foresight and the talent.

But every time they'd even think about it, Berman would rap their knuckles with a wooden yardstick.

The punishment for Thoughtcrime does not include death, it is death.

Harvey · January 28 2012, 11:21 PM

It is where Michael Taylor and Bryan Fuller cut their teeth as writers; both would go on to better things after the series...

AdmiralScreed · January 29 2012, 12:07 AM

You_Will_Fail wrote:

AdmiralScreed wrote:

The episode could have been rewritten so that the DS9 characters were integral to the plot. They had the opportunity to make something really special with this episode and they sort of blew it.

They didn't blow it. The concept they had was a complete one, the script was funny and well written and the actors performed well. Its absurd to say they blew it just because they had an episode that took place back in the Federation that didn't include DS9.

If you look at the episode for what it is, then yes it is a good episode with an interesting story and lots of humor. I'm not disputing that at all. All I am saying is that this could have been one of the best episodes of the entire series if they had taken the original idea for an Alpha Quadrant story and taken it in a different (and far superior) direction by making it a true DS9 crossover.

exodus · January 29 2012, 12:12 AM

RoJoHen wrote:

AdmiralScreed wrote:

The episode could have been rewritten so that the DS9 characters were integral to the plot. They had the opportunity to make something really special with this episode and they sort of blew it. The episode is fine as is, but it had the potential to be so much more. Just my opinion...

With that logic, we might as well re-write every single episode that had the potential to be "so much more." It's not like the writers planned a DS9 crossover and failed. The episode was never supposed to be a DS9 crossover in the first place.

And honestly, the crew of DS9 was a lot busier with other things (like, ya know, the war). The Defiant would have had no reason to be where the Prometheus was.

Exactly.

AdmiralScreed · January 29 2012, 12:15 AM

exodus wrote:

RoJoHen wrote:

AdmiralScreed wrote:

The episode could have been rewritten so that the DS9 characters were integral to the plot. They had the opportunity to make something really special with this episode and they sort of blew it. The episode is fine as is, but it had the potential to be so much more. Just my opinion...

With that logic, we might as well re-write every single episode that had the potential to be "so much more." It's not like the writers planned a DS9 crossover and failed. The episode was never supposed to be a DS9 crossover in the first place.

And honestly, the crew of DS9 was a lot busier with other things (like, ya know, the war). The Defiant would have had no reason to be where the Prometheus was.

Exactly.

No, not "exactly."

You folks are satisfied waaay too easily. Can't you see things for they could have been? What they SHOULD have been? This episode could have been completely epic, but instead they just do another humor episode with the Doctor. A good episode, I will admit, but nowhere near as grand and exciting as it could have been.

exodus · January 29 2012, 12:20 AM

AdmiralScreed wrote:

exodus wrote:

RoJoHen wrote:

With that logic, we might as well re-write every single episode that had the potential to be "so much more." It's not like the writers planned a DS9 crossover and failed. The episode was never supposed to be a DS9 crossover in the first place.

And honestly, the crew of DS9 was a lot busier with other things (like, ya know, the war). The Defiant would have had no reason to be where the Prometheus was.

Exactly.

No, not "exactly."

You folks are satisfied waaay too easily. Can't you see things for they could have been? What they SHOULD have been? This episode could have been completely epic, but instead they just do another humor episode with the Doctor. A good episode, I will admit, but nowhere near as grand and exciting as it could have been.

Didn't you say when you started these reviews that you'd be open minded to others ideas and opinions even if they didn't agree with yours? It doesn't sound like your keeping true to you're own words right now.

That being said, no I do NOT agree with your opinion and/or point of view. I agree with other in the fact that the crew of DS9 had more important issues to deal with than one rogue ship.

Guy Gardener · January 29 2012, 12:28 AM

Every episode, with a tiny rewrite would have been a DS9 cross over.

Right down to Tom writing a Quarks Bar Homoprogram for the crew to kick back in.

Of course, then they go to Vics Bar inside Quarks bar.

Now, your standard Vic may know that he's a hologram,. but would this Vic know that he is a holohologram?

January 28 2012, 07:30 PM	#721
You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud	Re: Does It Get Better??? Exactly. It would have made the episode worse if they'd just inexplicably tacked on a few DS9 characters who shouldnt have even been anywhere near the area anyway. __________________ My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys

January 28 2012, 08:43 PM	#722
AdmiralScreed Captain Location: Minnesota	Re: Does It Get Better??? The episode could have been rewritten so that the DS9 characters were integral to the plot. They had the opportunity to make something really special with this episode and they sort of blew it. The episode is fine as is, but it had the potential to be so much more. Just my opinion... __________________ Picard > Kirk

January 28 2012, 10:10 PM	#725
Harvey Admiral	Re: Does It Get Better??? Honestly, I'm glad the episode wasn't a crossover with Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Can you imagine the writers doing justice to the concept? Better to do a comic romp, something much more in the arena of Star Trek: Voyager, than to attempt something serious. You haven't gotten there yet, but in season five the series will make direct reference to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine in the episode "Extreme Risk" (although there are no character crossovers). The result is an utter failure. __________________ "What do you hear, Starbuck?" "Nothing but the rain, sir." "Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."

January 28 2012, 10:43 PM	#727
Harvey Admiral	Re: Does It Get Better??? And if the writers of Star Trek: Voyager had any foresight or talent, the character beats in "Extreme Risk" would have either happened much earlier or been alluded to throughout the rest of season four. Alas, neither. __________________ "What do you hear, Starbuck?" "Nothing but the rain, sir." "Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."

January 28 2012, 11:21 PM	#730
Harvey Admiral	Re: Does It Get Better??? It is where Michael Taylor and Bryan Fuller cut their teeth as writers; both would go on to better things after the series... __________________ "What do you hear, Starbuck?" "Nothing but the rain, sir." "Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."

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January 29 2012, 12:28 AM	#735
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Does It Get Better??? Every episode, with a tiny rewrite would have been a DS9 cross over. Right down to Tom writing a Quarks Bar Homoprogram for the crew to kick back in. Of course, then they go to Vics Bar inside Quarks bar. Now, your standard Vic may know that he's a hologram,. but would this Vic know that he is a holohologram? __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz