RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,381
Posts: 5,357,182
Members: 24,628
Currently online: 496
Newest member: suryaprabu02

TrekToday headlines

The Gene Roddenberry Project Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Moore: No Deep Space Nine Regrets
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Pegg Star Wars Rumor
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 27 2012, 01:04 AM   #751
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

That's the problem with shows that ended over a decade ago, it's long past the spoiler threshold. Which reminds of another show "Threshold" bo not the VOY episode but the show. It showed promise before it was cancelled as did Odyssey 5. Jeez is it any wonder why shows fail these days with audiances skeptical about tuning into a show for fear of cancellation so it ends up getting cancelled. A vicious circle if you will.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2012, 03:46 AM   #752
Admiral Shran
Admiral
 
Location: In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Skywalker wrote: View Post
But ENT is better than VOY.
I have mathematically proven it using my subjective opinions.
That's all the proof I need.

The Abandoned is a pretty solid episode, even if it's mostly a huge exposition dump for the Jem'Hadar.

Of course, I think it's better than I Borg because the idealism of Geordi and Crusher seems a little forced in my opinion, at least until Hugh becomes an full individual.

And, of course....

we get to see Mardah almost overflowing out of her top. What's not to like?
Indeed!
__________________
Vote Obomney 2012!
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that it's magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert, Dune
Admiral Shran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2012, 10:29 AM   #753
Ln X
Fleet Captain
 
Ln X's Avatar
 
Location: The great gig in the sky
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

As Bajorans go, Mardah was really cute.

As for the main part of the episode I think of this episode a bit like this:
So the writers were asking themselves how they could write another story about the Dominion. So which aspect of the Dominion do they pick? Can't be Founders because they have already covered it recently, the Vorta seem a bit too dull (and this is before Weyoun arrived), so what about the Jem'Hadar?

So they picked the Jem'Hadar and Odo of course had to be involved, and placed in a situation where he has such Founder-like power and control over this young Jem'Hadar, but does not want to be a Founder or raise the Jem'Hadar as a killing machine.

It's a good premise, and this episode is enjoyable to watch (or as Admiral Shran said a 'huge exposition dump'). I also like that Odo fails miserably in his attempts in raising the Jem'Hadar, and this is another indication of how this series branches off from TNG; sometimes a good outcome is not reached, and if anything the outcome can be worse than before.

Besides combine the Jem'Hadar's violence with this young ones puberty (DO Jem'Hadar have puberty; like a really painful, moody, growing up phase?) and what chance do Odo have? Kira sceptism was definitely warranted...
__________________
Star Trek: The Approaching Shadow...

Caption contest: DS9
Ln X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2012, 02:36 PM   #754
Admiral Shran
Admiral
 
Location: In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Ln X wrote: View Post
I also like that Odo fails miserably in his attempts in raising the Jem'Hadar, and this is another indication of how this series branches off from TNG; sometimes a good outcome is not reached, and if anything the outcome can be worse than before.
True, I can't help but feel that on TNG the outcome would have been that the Jem'Hadar learns the lesson they want to teach him. Or, at the bare minimum, he would return to the Dominion with an entirely new outlook.
__________________
Vote Obomney 2012!
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that it's magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert, Dune
Admiral Shran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2012, 07:06 PM   #755
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Civil Defence (***)

Every Trek does an episode like this, the one where there's an accident of some sort that threatens to blow up the ship/station and kill everyone unless someone can [tech] the [tech] with 1 second to spare. Well, not every Trek has done it, but TNG and Voyager have. In fact, these episodes can serve as a window into each show. TNG's Disaster was caused by a random space anomaly and it used the premise to tell numerous character stories. Civil Defence's problem is the result of a legacy issue from the Bajoran occupation, it's an ensemble piece where foes are forced to work together to survive and it contains some humour. Voyager's The Haunting of Deck Twelve was caused by a funky alien and was framed by having Neelix tell a ghost story, but it was really about generic action and how awesome a captain Janeway is.

So, how is this episode? It's entertaining enough, it's heightened by some great character interactions yet let down by some superfluous elements and masses of technobabble. The best parts of the episode were Garak and Dukat's interactions with the regulars, and particularly their interactions with one another. Strangely enough, even though Odo and Quark's scenes together are often a highlight of an average episode, putting the two characters together here felt gratuitous. I'd have been fine if the show decided to do an experimental episode about these two characters forced to sit in a room and talk to one another (the original concept for The Ascent, if I remember correctly) but in this episode involving a countdown timer that's going to kill 2,000 people having these two characters talking and doing nothing felt out of place. Finally, there's the technobabble. This episode is almost commendable for the fact that every technobabble solution they come up with makes the situation worse somehow, which could have been an interesting comment on how this show isn't TNG, but the final solution to the problems ends up being a technobabble mess involving Sisko rapidly switching rods around, which isn't all that exciting.

This episode would have worked best back in season 1. Not only would the counterinsurgency program and Dukat's role in this episode have been more fitting back then, the entire structure of this episode feels like something from season 1 rather than season 3. It's hard to describe, but this episode feels more like a typical TNG episode rather than the kind of stories that DS9 has been doing lately. Also, the idea of characters that don't know or trust one another forced to work together to save their own skins on an old Cardassian monstrosity would have fit in perfectly back then.
__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2012, 07:39 PM   #756
Seven of Five
Commodore
 
Seven of Five's Avatar
 
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I remember loving this episode back when it aired! Whatever the crew did made things worse, and seeing Dukat fail after his smugness when he first beamed abaord was hilarious. Of course back then I wasn't that exposed to how often this type of episode happened during Trek's run, or other similarly themed just-in-the-nick-of-time shows - 24 I'm looking at you.

Looking back on it, it's an okay episode, but I don't like it as much as TNG's Disaster, which had more interesting fish-out-of-water scenarios for the cast. It developed Picard and Troi in particular quite nicely.
__________________
Other prisons do Shakespeare and shit. I want to play a role, like Desdemona or Ophelia or Clair Huxtable.
Seven of Five is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2012, 08:04 PM   #757
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I still find this episode highly rewatchable. Love the Garak-Dukat interactions, love Dukat getting the rug pulled out from under him by "his" own program...

...and I very definitely love it when the Ops replicator produces a weapon...and moreso when Dukat interrupts it to get a cup of tea.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2012, 08:06 PM   #758
Seven of Five
Commodore
 
Seven of Five's Avatar
 
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine



Yeah, Dukat was on form in this one.
__________________
Other prisons do Shakespeare and shit. I want to play a role, like Desdemona or Ophelia or Clair Huxtable.
Seven of Five is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2012, 10:57 PM   #759
defiantfan
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

In "Civil Defense" I actually enjoyed the Sisko/Jake/O'Brien scenes. We see Jake and Dad working together and O'Brien doing his thing, also more about the mines.
defiantfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28 2012, 05:58 AM   #760
Aragorn
Admiral
 
Aragorn's Avatar
 
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
I much prefer ENT to VOY, ENT at least had two rather strong seasons while VOY rarely got to be anything but average.
You could say that the first two seasons of ENT were basically seasons 8-9 of VOY in terms of quality.

Imagine if the shows were reversed... ENT was the flagship for the brand new UPN network and getting seven seasons no matter what. Seven bland seasons of ENT, two bland seasons of VOY, two good seasons of VOY, plug is pulled on Star Trek TV.
Aragorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28 2012, 07:21 AM   #761
Admiral Shran
Admiral
 
Location: In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

^ I would rather have what we got with nine average seasons of VOY and ENT and two good/great seasons of ENT. If it were reversed and VOY got the good seasons, I doubt they would have been able to tell the same kinds of stories they did, especially in ENT Season Four.

Civil Defense, I must admit, is something of a guilty pleasure for me. It does have all the flaws that TheGodBen pointed out, but damn is it an enjoyable ride. And, of course the scenes between Dukat and Garak are spectacular - especially when Garak calls out Dukat for thinking he can charm his way into Kira's pants.
__________________
Vote Obomney 2012!
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that it's magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert, Dune
Admiral Shran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28 2012, 07:36 AM   #762
Evil Twin
Rear Admiral
 
Evil Twin's Avatar
 
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

"Civil Defense" was the very first DS9 episode I ever saw, back when I was first getting into Trek as a whole during the summer of '95 via late night TOS reruns on UPN, so it's always held a special place with me. This is my all-time favorite Dukat appeance on the show, especially him standing there immune and laughing as the device in the replicator is blasting away at everyone, and then flicking the baseball off Sisko's desk afterwards. I prefer old school season 1-3 Dukat to the later disgraced/crazed/possessed etc one.
__________________
My DVD Collection
Evil Twin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28 2012, 07:50 AM   #763
Admiral Shran
Admiral
 
Location: In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I forgot - I also love the scene in Sisko's office where Kira tells Dukat that she would rather let the station blow up than let Cardassians set foot on it again. When Dukat says....

Would you allow two thousand people aboard this station to die simply because you don't like... us?
....Marc Alaimo really shows up his acting chops. You can tell, in that short pause before the word "us" that there is so much going on in Dukat's mind - he almost said "me" but knew what Kira's answer would be and didn't want to face it. Amazing acting, that.
__________________
Vote Obomney 2012!
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that it's magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert, Dune
Admiral Shran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28 2012, 11:41 AM   #764
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

"Civil Defense" is an enjoyabe enough episode.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28 2012, 06:02 PM   #765
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Meridian (*)

What is love? Baby don't hurt me. Don't hurt me no more.



Here we are, the crème de la crème of romance-of-the-week episodes. Actually, that's an erroneous use of that phrase but I don't know the French word for santorum. The a-plot of this episode is absolutely awful, it has no redeming qualities. What could have been a mildly interesting sci-fi story about a village capable of shifting into an extra-dimensional plane gets hijacked by a romance story that's impossible to take seriously. This episode completely undermines Jadzia's character and turns a woman with eight lifetimes of experience into someone resembling a Twlight-loving teen girl. Hell, this episode undermines Sisko's character purely because he didn't hold Jadzia's head under water until she came to her senses. I don't want to talk about this any further, so I'll let Ira Behr have the final word:

Ira Behr wrote:
However, I did like the b-plot, and this is perhaps the only occasion where I was annoyed that the serious a-plot was getting in the way of the comic b-plot. You've got Quark doing something seedy, you've got Jeffrey Combs getting his perv on, and it has a great punchline. It's a little upsetting that a major issue like holographic image rights in the 24th century is played purely for laughs, but in this case I'm willing to let it slide because this story continually rescued me from the a-plot over the course of the 45 minutes.
__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
deep space nine, ds9, episode discussion, review

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:05 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.