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Old January 19 2012, 12:19 AM   #16
Anwar
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

The whole "Capitalism out of control" thing wasn't such a good idea to begin with. Instead of some moral play "Out of control" thing they should've just had them be the Corporate side of Trek, no "out of control" stuff but just an example of Space Corporations. Good, bad and neutral.

I mean heck, even keeping the Ferengi as short guys with big heads could still work out: They're the CEOs who hire impulsive mercenaries or Mob Bosses with big tough goons. The usual "Short guy with big tough bodyguards" thing.
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Old January 19 2012, 07:18 PM   #17
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

Do a rivalry thing, the capitalistic corporate republic of the Ferengi - verses - the liberal semi-socialist Federation. Set them up as serious opponents for the Federation, a larger scale of the contest between Odo and Quark. Have the Ferengi back the Federation down on occasion.

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Old January 20 2012, 11:56 PM   #18
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

Yevetha wrote: View Post
I think a ferengi megacorp is impossibel unless the workers are from offworld. Ferengi lack the discipline to keep a megacorp together.


But I thought we were talking about what if the ferengi were capable of such a thing and not purely for comic relief? In that case, who can say they would lack the needed discipline to run it themselves?
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Old January 22 2012, 05:27 AM   #19
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

The Overlord wrote: View Post
Quark's business is a sole proprietorship, not a corporation.
Do we know that for sure? A corporation can be owned and run by one person.
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Old January 22 2012, 08:01 AM   #20
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

CoveTom wrote: View Post
The Overlord wrote: View Post
Quark's business is a sole proprietorship, not a corporation.
Do we know that for sure? A corporation can be owned and run by one person.
Actually a corporation is run by a board of directors and is owned by shareholders, if there are no shareholders it isn't a corporation. What evidence is there that Quark's bar issues shares or is indeed a corporation at all? It is run far more like a sole proprietorship. There is no evidence that "Quark's bar" is a separate legal entity, for example.
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Old January 23 2012, 06:23 PM   #21
CoveSanta
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

The Overlord wrote: View Post
Actually a corporation is run by a board of directors and is owned by shareholders, if there are no shareholders it isn't a corporation. What evidence is there that Quark's bar issues shares or is indeed a corporation at all? It is run far more like a sole proprietorship. There is no evidence that "Quark's bar" is a separate legal entity, for example.
A corporation has to have a board of directors and shareholders. However, one person can hold all the stock in a corporation and be the entire board of directors, as well as all of the corporate officer positions. This is extremely common in small business because it provides the personal liability protection that a sole proprietorship does not. So, yes, a corporation can be a one-person operation.

And it makes total sense that someone as shrewd as Quark would set up his business dealings in such a way that if the latest person he dealt with decided to sue him, they could go after his business assets, but not his personal ones.
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Old January 23 2012, 08:19 PM   #22
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

CoveTom wrote: View Post
The Overlord wrote: View Post
Actually a corporation is run by a board of directors and is owned by shareholders, if there are no shareholders it isn't a corporation. What evidence is there that Quark's bar issues shares or is indeed a corporation at all? It is run far more like a sole proprietorship. There is no evidence that "Quark's bar" is a separate legal entity, for example.
A corporation has to have a board of directors and shareholders. However, one person can hold all the stock in a corporation and be the entire board of directors, as well as all of the corporate officer positions. This is extremely common in small business because it provides the personal liability protection that a sole proprietorship does not. So, yes, a corporation can be a one-person operation.

And it makes total sense that someone as shrewd as Quark would set up his business dealings in such a way that if the latest person he dealt with decided to sue him, they could go after his business assets, but not his personal ones.
There is still no direct evidence that Quark's business is a corporation and really when I am talking about Ferengi Corporations, I am talking about huge expansive megacorps, not a small business that incorporates. I just think if the Ferengi were supposed to menacing villains and were supposed to be a commentary of the evils of excessive capitalism, they should have been presented as corporate villains rather then generic space pirates.
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Old January 25 2012, 05:28 AM   #23
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

Anwar wrote: View Post
The whole "Capitalism out of control" thing wasn't such a good idea to begin with. Instead of some moral play "Out of control" thing they should've just had them be the Corporate side of Trek, no "out of control" stuff but just an example of Space Corporations. Good, bad and neutral.
There's no such thing as a "good" corporation. A corporation inherently functions in a sociopathic manner.
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Old January 25 2012, 06:46 AM   #24
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

The Overlord wrote: View Post
Yevetha wrote: View Post
I think a ferengi megacorp is impossibel unless the workers are from offworld. Ferengi lack the discipline to keep a megacorp together.
And that's why they don't work as serious villains. If the Fererngi Alliance was supposed to be a commentary about a nightmarish version of capitalism that has gone out control, having the Ferengi have so little impulse control they could never form a megacorp doesn't work. It renders them silly rather then scary and fails both political commentary and presenting menacing villains.
I like them better this way. They were quite diverse from arms dealers to simple folks. As a villain they would probably have been a whole lot less diverse. I like the idea of a society where everyone is so out for their own profit that mega corporations don't work out due to in fighting and back stabbing.. so they do business without that level of cooperation. Their alliances are short lived it seems, for the profit of the moment. It works for them and fits their driving purpose in life.
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Old January 25 2012, 08:05 PM   #25
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

teacake wrote: View Post
The Overlord wrote: View Post
Yevetha wrote: View Post
I think a ferengi megacorp is impossibel unless the workers are from offworld. Ferengi lack the discipline to keep a megacorp together.
And that's why they don't work as serious villains. If the Fererngi Alliance was supposed to be a commentary about a nightmarish version of capitalism that has gone out control, having the Ferengi have so little impulse control they could never form a megacorp doesn't work. It renders them silly rather then scary and fails both political commentary and presenting menacing villains.
I like them better this way. They were quite diverse from arms dealers to simple folks. As a villain they would probably have been a whole lot less diverse. I like the idea of a society where everyone is so out for their own profit that mega corporations don't work out due to in fighting and back stabbing.. so they do business without that level of cooperation. Their alliances are short lived it seems, for the profit of the moment. It works for them and fits their driving purpose in life.
You could argue they are less diverse if they are in mega corps, but they would have been far more menacing if they were organized as mega corporations. The Ferengi are just not menacing because they have no impulse control, they can't enact any epic long term schemes, because they will get distracted but some small possibility of immediate profit. Before Quark came along none of the Ferengi came off as competent schemers. A villain needs to menacing and threatening to be effective and the Ferengi acting like greedy impulsive children doesn't make for a threatening villain, which is why they were bumped down to comic relief.
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Old January 25 2012, 11:34 PM   #26
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

But their purpose wasn't to be the villain the way the Klingons were. Everything doesn't have to be large scale. They would never be large scale villains because they need the non Ferengi races to leech off of and exploit.
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Old January 26 2012, 01:09 AM   #27
Anwar
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

teacake wrote: View Post
But their purpose wasn't to be the villain the way the Klingons were. Everything doesn't have to be large scale. They would never be large scale villains because they need the non Ferengi races to leech off of and exploit.
Who do you think the Ferengi Corporations' shareholders would be?
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Old January 26 2012, 03:08 AM   #28
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

teacake wrote: View Post
But their purpose wasn't to be the villain the way the Klingons were. Everything doesn't have to be large scale. They would never be large scale villains because they need the non Ferengi races to leech off of and exploit.
But if they can't do anything large scale then they aren't very menacing villains, are they? Every other civilization they can organize themselves well comes off as more threatening then the Ferengi who have no long term planning abilities. The schemes of the Cardassians and Romulans seem far dangerous then the Ferengi who will just get distracted by anything shiny. In the world of intergalactic relations, the civilization with no impulse control will be the loser.

The Ferengi frankly should have different races working for them when they first appeared, they should have had someone else be the muscle for them. They don't look very menacing, they are merchants not soldiers, so they should hire others to fight for them. They should have been schemers, not fighters, but they weren't very good scheming in TNG. But they were presented as greedy children in early TNG, so they didn't seem to be smart enough to come up with a good scheme or hire a stronger race to be their muscle, that's why they were demoted to comic relief.

I don't think you can have a civilization be commentary on the dark side of capitalism and not have something as important to modern capitalism as corporations are.
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Old January 26 2012, 03:52 AM   #29
ambessalion
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Re: Ferengi Corporations

i had said on another forum that the Ferengi/Federation antagonism would have been perfect analog as a 19th century mercantilism vs transcendentalism of the US and Europe if the Ferengi hadn't been portrayed as a bunch of idiotic clowns with energy whips...

even on DS9, they were still treated as rather silly though eventually they became more serious (barely though)
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