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Old January 22 2012, 03:48 AM   #676
exodus
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Re: Does It Get Better???

CaptainMatt wrote: View Post
Wow. Just wow. A lot of heated arguments in here today. I too can see the Borg Queen getting tired of Janeway/Voyager. So why did she simply not...I don't know... assimilate them already?
She doesn't want a "car", she wanted real estate.
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Old January 22 2012, 04:12 AM   #677
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Re: Does It Get Better???

"The Borg assimilate civilizations, not individuals."

Hugh. I Borg.
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Old January 22 2012, 04:18 AM   #678
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Re: Does It Get Better???

And also, the show would be over.
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Old January 22 2012, 04:25 AM   #679
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Re: Does It Get Better???

The Borg should always been trying to assimilate Voyager WHEN the opportunity arose.
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Old January 22 2012, 04:30 AM   #680
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Re: Does It Get Better???

But there was always opportunity, because the Borg could go anywhere in the Galaxy with their Transwarp, had thousands of ships and likely sensor networks all over the place.

The problem was that the writers (going all the way back to TNG) overpowered the Borg too much. If they were going to go as far as they did in overpowering them to that extent, VOY should have been about a war to cripple the Borg threat rather than just using them as an occasional two-parter.
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Old January 22 2012, 06:56 AM   #681
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Re: Does It Get Better???

The minute I heard about VOY I wondered how they'd address the Borg issue.

That being said, the idea that "Scorpion" or "Dark Frontier" were better than BoBW makes me chuckle a bit. I'd be curious to see what they would have done with BoBW if they'd had the FX advances that were available by the time of VOY.
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Old January 22 2012, 07:09 AM   #682
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Re: Does It Get Better???

All things being equal, especially after so many years, I think I definitely prefer "Scorpion" to "BOBW." It's not a question of visual effects. Over the years, I've just come to realize that I greatly prefer the Voyager characters to the TNG ones. That said, my favorite parts of BOBW have nothing to do with the Borg. I much prefer the quieter scenes, like the one between Picard and Guinan when they discuss the oncoming battle, the scene between Deanna and Riker about what he really wants and how he's not as ambitious as he used to be, and the "That is now your chair" discussion between Guinan and Riker in Part 2.
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Old January 22 2012, 07:32 AM   #683
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Re: Does It Get Better???

DonIago wrote: View Post
The minute I heard about VOY I wondered how they'd address the Borg issue.

That being said, the idea that "Scorpion" or "Dark Frontier" were better than BoBW makes me chuckle a bit. I'd be curious to see what they would have done with BoBW if they'd had the FX advances that were available by the time of VOY.
BOBW's claim to fame was the possibility of losing Picard, and the threat of assimilation. Take those two things away and the plot isn't anything Trek hadn't done before (it's the plot of TMP except the Borg were more hostile and weaker than V'Ger).

Also, it was the first time Trek ever did the cliffhanger at the end of the season trick and the lack of internet meant we were truly taken by surprise.

Lastly, the fandom wasn't out to hate TNG before it started like it was with VOY.
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Old January 22 2012, 09:01 AM   #684
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I wasn't out to hate VOY before it started.

But then, plenty of fans were out to hate TNG before it started too, so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about.
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Old January 22 2012, 09:19 AM   #685
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I recall being extremely excited about Voyager before the premier. And internet WAS around back then, so I knew quite a bit about what the show was intended to be.
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Old January 22 2012, 09:32 AM   #686
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Re: Does It Get Better???

DonIago wrote: View Post
The minute I heard about VOY I wondered how they'd address the Borg issue.

That being said, the idea that "Scorpion" or "Dark Frontier" were better than BoBW makes me chuckle a bit. I'd be curious to see what they would have done with BoBW if they'd had the FX advances that were available by the time of VOY.
Seven of Nine is the reason "Dark Frontier" is better than "Best of Both Worlds". The show has a real emotional center which I don't really get as much BOBW.
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Old January 22 2012, 09:50 AM   #687
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Dark Frontier was too Disney.

Even though, the Hanson's are the worst parents in science fiction since Vader cut Luke's hand off.
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Old January 22 2012, 04:10 PM   #688
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Hey, I'm pretty sure Vader had told Luke to stop touching himself previously, but he just wouldn't listen...
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Old January 23 2012, 03:08 PM   #689
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Re: Does It Get Better???

The last several days have been extremely busy, so I haven't had a lot of time to watch Voyager. Here are some updates:

Raven: I'd had such a long day by the time I got around to watching this that I couldn't stay awake for most of it. At some point I'll get around to watching it again.

Scientific Method: I really liked the Tom/B'Ellana scenes at the beginning, and the main plot was fairly interesting as well. I liked the message they were trying to get across about animal experimentation and how unfair and unethical it was (and still is). All in all a fine episode. I don't have any major complaints.
5/10

Year of Hell Part 1 and 2: This is the most exciting 2 parter I've seen in a while. I loved the dark atmosphere and the feeling of hopelessness that this episode created for the crew of Voyager. Seeing Janeway pushed to the extreme was interesting, and I thought the Krenim were really interesting characters. Also, good continuity with Before and After. Everything Kes predicted about the Year of Hell came true. Well, mostly everything.
No complaints, except for the minor issue of the reset button at the end.
9/10
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Old January 23 2012, 09:54 PM   #690
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I think "The Raven" is a nearly great episode marred by the tacked on ending where Tuvok and Seven have to get out of the ship because of the attack by needlessly aggressive aliens™.
"Scientific Method" is a fun story and I always like it when we get to see Janeway actually show some emotion. One thing that bothers me is when Janeway talks about people being too lax on the ship though, since it really reminds you that there is so little different about Voyager compared to other Starfleet ships/crews despite its wholly unique situation. Nonetheless I enjoyed it.

I have mixed feelings about "Year of Hell" although I do feel it was a well written, acted and directed two-parter. I think I'm probably a little sour on the episode since it was originally a story in which Kes was to play an important role and while I was immensely enjoying Seven at this point in the show, I was missing the presence Kes too. I don't like how they basically didn't address Kes's warning about the Krenim. Some say that the temporal waves meant that Kes's warning never happened but I find that to be a completely BS explanation.
The only explanation I can think of is that species 8472's introduction into the AQ changed the original course of events meaning that Kes left the ship and the events of "Before and After" never happened - but even that doesn't really make much sense. Quite simply, I still think that "Year of Hell" stands somewhat uncomfortably with "Before and After" and if Kes had still been around, I'd probably have enjoyed it a whole lot more.
I just wish we'd got the year-long Year of Hell arc that was proposed, the reset button is certainly a pain.
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