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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old January 10 2012, 07:05 PM   #376
tighr
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Elogium. Ugh, another "Kes" episode.
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Old January 10 2012, 07:14 PM   #377
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Re: Does It Get Better???

tighr wrote: View Post
Elogium. Ugh, another "Kes" episode.
I don't think all of her episodes have been bad so far. Warlord was fine,and I thought Cold Fire was very good.
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Old January 10 2012, 07:18 PM   #378
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Re: Does It Get Better???

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
Elogium. Ugh, another "Kes" episode.
I don't think all of her episodes have been bad so far. Warlord was fine,and I thought Cold Fire was very good.
As I mentioned earlier, Warlord was good because it wasn't a Kes episode, it was a Jennifer Lien episode. Cold Fire was alright, I'd give it a 5 or so. The female Caretaker was sorely wasted.
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Old January 10 2012, 07:37 PM   #379
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Re: Does It Get Better???

tighr wrote: View Post
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tighr wrote: View Post
Elogium. Ugh, another "Kes" episode.
I don't think all of her episodes have been bad so far. Warlord was fine,and I thought Cold Fire was very good.
As I mentioned earlier, Warlord was good because it wasn't a Kes episode, it was a Jennifer Lien episode. Cold Fire was alright, I'd give it a 5 or so. The female Caretaker was sorely wasted.
Fair enough.
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Old January 10 2012, 09:03 PM   #380
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I liked the show much more with Seven Of Nine as played by the wonderful Jeri Ryan.
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Old January 10 2012, 09:42 PM   #381
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Jetfire wrote: View Post
I liked the show much more with Seven Of Nine as played by the wonderful Jeri Ryan.
She seems to be the hot topic of a lot of Voyager conversations around here. I haven't gotten quite that far in the show yet, but I'll let you all know what I think of her character when I do.
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Old January 10 2012, 09:45 PM   #382
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Re: Does It Get Better???

tighr wrote: View Post
As I mentioned earlier, Warlord was good because it wasn't a Kes episode, it was a Jennifer Lien episode.
"Warlord" showed Kes's strength and determination, that beneath her waifish, innocent appearance, she was still a strong fighter determined to defeat Tieran and expel him from her mind/body. This can be seen in the scenes where Tieran and Kes are squaring off in her head.
I mean I didn't love the episode, but I think its fairly obviously an episode that does tell us something about Kes.
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Old January 11 2012, 04:01 AM   #383
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Favorite Son: I liked the aliens-of-the-week in this episode. They were both creepy and seductive, and they also had a clever scheme. Unfortunately Wang gave another bad performance, and the science behind this episode was pretty appalling. It was also pretty cheesy at times.
I wish that more time had been devoted to the aliens who attacked Voyager. Just what is their relationship to the aliens on the planet, and why are they so hostile towards them?
Another thing to note is just how much the aliens of this episode remind me of the Edo from TNG's Justice. They look like gorgeous goddesses, but underneath it all they are quite ruthless. I thought that was quite interesting.
All in all this is an okay episode, but it could have been better.
4/10

Before and After: With the exception of The Year of Hell scenes (and Kes' long hair) I found this to be an incredibly dull and slow moving episode. Still, when this episode was good it was REALLY good.
4/10
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Old January 11 2012, 04:08 AM   #384
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Re: Does It Get Better???

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Darkling: A unremarkable episode. I didn't care too much for "Evil Doctor." And the aliens of the week weren't particularly interesting. Still, this episode did have its good moments. I liked the scenes on the holodeck with the historical figures, and the Doctor's scene with B'Elanna at the beginning was quite funny. I also liked most of the scenes with Kes.
4/10
Darkling blows ass.

0/10. Worst episode of Voyager.

In contrast with Rise, Darkling shows what Kes is capable of doing when she's not buoyed up by Neelix. i.e., nothing.
Agreed.

What's worse is they never explain how the Doctor studying different philosophers translates into: " I must commit murder to protect Kes and stop her from leaving Voyager." There is nothing that ties the EMH's story to Kes',yet by the end were supposed believe they're intertwined?
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Old January 11 2012, 04:47 AM   #385
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Wow, "Before and After" gets the same score as "Favorite Son". What fresh alternate timeline is this, that I find myself thrust into?
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Old January 11 2012, 04:56 AM   #386
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I'd give Before and After a point or two more than Favorite Son, if this were my thread. The nice thing about it was showing one possible future, and the plot device of her memories traveling back in time was well done, almost like Memento. Favorite Son seemed like a vampire flick, but Harry shoulda got his rocks off, first!
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Old January 11 2012, 01:09 PM   #387
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Re: Does It Get Better???

DonIago wrote: View Post
Wow, "Before and After" gets the same score as "Favorite Son". What fresh alternate timeline is this, that I find myself thrust into?
I'm also very shocked that "Before and After" gets a 4/10. Its a really well liked episode of Voyager and in fact I think it won the best episode of season 3 and the second best episode of Voyager in the elimination games a while back (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=145967) and has a place on several people's top 10 lists.
Jammer gave it 3.5/4 (http://www.jammersreviews.com/st-voy...fore-after.php) and sfdebris gave it 8/10 (http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated...review-5380763), and personally its one of my favorite episodes of all time.

I thought the mystery of her going back in time, seeing her relationship with Tom and how he's dealing with an aged spouse that can't remember him (similar to Alzheimer's sufferers) was very touching. Seeing an alternate future of Voyager was interesting too, and all of the action scenes were exciting and directed differently from what we'd seen before. I haven't had this much trouble accepting a score since theGodBen gave "Barge of the Dead" only a 2.5/5 but this score is even worse!

I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid because its in the minority, I'm just a bit surprised that your taste is so different.
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Old January 11 2012, 01:29 PM   #388
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Re: Does It Get Better???

After posting my score for that episode I looked around the net at other reviews, and I must say that I am really surprised so many people like this one. I'm almost as surprised as I was a couple years ago when I discovered TWOK was the fan favorite Trek, since personally I don't care for that film either. I'd watch TMP, TVH, or TUC over that crappy film any day.
Could people explain to me why they consider this to be one of the best episodes ever? It struck me as just a slightly below average episode, with not much to offer other than The Year of Hell which I thought was fascinating.
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Old January 11 2012, 01:37 PM   #389
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I'm sure if you read some of those reviews, you'll see why people like it so much!

As Jammer said

"Before and After" is yet another Trek breed of the Time Manipulation Paradigm, but I'm not about to hold that against the show. This is a weird, effective story that uses its plot machinations as a springboard for some thoroughly enjoyable mini-stories. The episode is paced at a brisk speed and filled with sub-stories that contain humor and fascination, venturing into both hope and despair.
...
The relentless jumping through time makes the story interesting and fast-paced--as does the way Kes and the crew come to understand the nature of the mystery--but what really makes "Before and After" compelling are the "what if" implications. The story paints us one possible future of the starship Voyager, and it's in these details that the show gets truly inventive and entertaining.


I can't really put it better myself
http://www.jammersreviews.com/st-voy...fore-after.php
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Old January 11 2012, 02:10 PM   #390
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Fair enough. Maybe it would be more deserving of a 5/10.
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