Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

[Therin of Andor]

AllStarEntprise wrote:

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While it wasn't totally unfeasible for TNG to make more than 4 movies.

Except, the pattern of rising salaries for Stewart and Spiner was making the budget trickier with each film. Or Paramount had to have been brave enough to proceed without one or both of them.

TMP commenced as "Phase II" without Nimoy. Saavik and David were groomed to take over from Nimoy and Shatner in future Spockless/Kirkless ST followups to ST II. They weren't needed, but they were on hand. Each movie was a reunion, after the initial absence of the characters for ten years.

The success of TNG films, after seven years of the characters together in ensemble, hinged on the ensemble effect, even though two cast members insisted on maximum participation/salary, but TNG movies' success still hinged on the presence of the ensemble.

[BillJ]

Therin of Andor wrote:

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The success of TNG films, after seven years of the characters together in ensemble, hinged on the ensemble effect, even though two cast members insisted on maximum participation/salary, but TNG movies' success still hinged on the presence of the ensemble.

I really disagree here. I think they could've ditched everyone but Stewart, Spiner and Dorn and not missed a beat.

[Therin of Andor]

BillJ wrote:

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I really disagree here. I think they could've ditched everyone but Stewart, Spiner and Dorn and not missed a beat.

That was kind of my point. Stewart and Spiner were making huge salary and participation demands and Dorn had a clause in his DS9 contract that he be included in future TNG movies.

But to ditch the rest of the ensemble would have trodden on a lot of toes.

[CoveTom]

To ditch the rest of the ensemble beyond Stewart, Spiner, and Dorn would have angered a great deal of the fans. If that made big financial sense for the studio, I can see them trying to weather that storm. However, the truth is that it was the salaries of Stewart and Spiner that were causing the budgets of the films to explode.

While I'm sure someone like Marina Sirtis or Gates McFadden was not being paid chump change by any means, I seriously doubt that eliminating them from the cast would have made a major impact on the film's budget.

The only way actor salaries could have helped the budget is if they had eliminated Stewart or Spiner, and they weren't about to do that.

[BillJ]

Not talking about cost. Talking about them taking up screen time spouting generic lines.

[Anji]

Money may have played a role, but the real reason was the TOS movies had a theme that ran through each film: the real meaning of friendship. The TNG movies were just random adventures.

[CaptainMatt]

TNG could have-should have-had done more than just the four films in the uears since the series went off the air. I almost do not know what happened, but it seems the soul of TNG was walked all over in favor of more action-oriented drama. A pity as TNG had the potential and mass market appeal to go longer than even TOS as a feature film franchise.

[BillJ]

CaptainMatt wrote:

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TNG could have-should have-had done more than just the four films in the uears since the series went off the air. I almost do not know what happened, but it seems the soul of TNG was walked all over in favor of more action-oriented drama. A pity as TNG had the potential and mass market appeal to go longer than even TOS as a feature film franchise.

I think the fact is that TNG was simply harder to translate into something mass market audiences wanted to pay to see on the big screen. Sometimes something that is magical on TV simply doesn't work on the big screen or vice-versa.

[Therin of Andor]

BillJ wrote:

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I think the fact is that TNG was simply harder to translate into something mass market audiences wanted to pay to see on the big screen. Sometimes something that is magical on TV simply doesn't work on the big screen or vice-versa.

There is not much sense of nostalgia when a show moves to feature films only a few weeks after a highly successful seven-season TV run. "The X-Files" had a similar problem, which had a feature film between TV seasons. (Ditto the 60s "Batman".)

Here in Australia, where colour TV didn't come in until late 1975, we had a few screened in b/w prime time TV soap operas ("Bellbird", "Number 96", "The Box") release a feature film version in the 70s that drove audiences wild, not because they were great movies, or even good examples of what made the shows popular on TV, but because fans could see their heroes in full colour for the first time.

TNG on film needed an extra hook.

TOS movies came with ten years of anticipation of seeing our heroes together again. Gene Roddenberry even suggested to Paramount that TOS be pulled from TV syndication for the months leading up to ST:TMP's premiere, to make audiences even hungrier. And it worked. Even though many ST fans were disappointed by TMP, they still went back to see it over and over and over.

[plynch]

CaptainMatt wrote:

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TNG could have-should have-had done more than just the four films in the uears since the series went off the air. I almost do not know what happened, but it seems the soul of TNG was walked all over in favor of more action-oriented drama. A pity as TNG had the potential and mass market appeal to go longer than even TOS as a feature film franchise.

I agree. When TNG DID do one that was more like its soul (INS) people complained it was just like an ep. Wow, ya can't win for losin'!

With TOS we had seen the 79 a million times by the 80's and here were some NEW ADVENTURES. Wow, thanks. Another poster is right, that we had seen 7 years of eps of TNG, and oh yeah, here are a few more.

[Anwar]

That, and the best stories TNG could have turned into movies had already been done: Yesterday's Enterprise would've been the perfect TOS/TNG crossover film.

[Galileo7]

Anwar wrote:

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That, and the best stories TNG could have turned into movies had already been done: Yesterday's Enterprise would've been the perfect TOS/TNG crossover film.

Absolutely agree.

The 1701-A after the end of TUC heading back to Earth for decommissioning passes through a temporal rift and encounters the 1701-D in the 24th century.

[A beaker full of death]

^ ugh. really?

[CaptainMatt]

Never know. Might have worked.

[Mooch]

If you want to know why the TOS movies were better, just look at the plots: the stakes were higher!

TMP - stopping Earth from being destroyed
TWOK - stopping the Genesis weapon
TSFS - ok, not very epic except for getting Spock back
TVH - stopping Earth from being destroyed
TFF - Enterprise getting hijacked, kinda interesting
TUC - peace between Federation and Klingons

GEN - stopping a guy from destroying a planet no one's ever heard of
FC - stopping Earth from being destroyed - that's why this one is the good one!
IN - saving some aliens on a planet no one's ever heard of
NEM - I honestly can't remember...Picard's clone wanted to kill him or something? I think the biggest problem with this one is that they cut out all the character developement bits and the plot didn't make any sense