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Old January 8 2012, 11:21 PM   #331
JanewayRulz!
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Re: Does It Get Better???

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Well that's fine Admiralscreed, I certainly know that my opinions of episodes changed from the first time I saw them too! I hated "Fair Trade" until a rewatch and actually remembering thinking "Coda" was ok until a rewatch, haha.

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
TORRES: When I came to this ship I resented the fact that Captain Janeway was responsible for our being stranded here in the Delta Quadrant. I didn't think that she made the right decision and I certainly didn't want to serve under her command. In the beginning I fought her. Even when she made me Chief Engineer I didn't trust her reasons. I kept looking for a hidden agenda. I actually believed that she'd set me up to fail. Well, I couldn't have been more wrong. She saw, she saw something in me that I didn't see. She saw a worthwhile person where I saw a lost and hostile misfit, and because she had faith in me I began to have faith in myself. And when she died, the first thing I thought was that I couldn't do this without her. That I needed her too badly - her strength and her compassion. But then I realized that the gift that she gave me, and gave a lot of us here, was the knowledge that we are better and stronger than we think. I wish I had said these things to her, I wish I'd taken the time.

Ok you seriously don't think its incredibly egotistical that Janeway is just assuming that she's had this huge positive impact on B'Ellana and changed her life? Like if I made up a memorial service in my mind where everyone I know talks about how amazing I was and how much I improved their lives...that's not pretty.
Could the woman BE any more full of herself?
Uhhh, no.

Its not egotistical to see the impact you've had on another person. Its egotistical to see only yourself when you look at your life.

Its easy to dismiss Janeway's relationship with B'Elanna when you compare it to Kes or to Seven, and yet her effect was just as telling upon B'Elanna as we can see from "Unimatrix Zero":

EMH: Can't we find another Borg ship? A sphere, maybe? Something less imposing?
TORRES: I rechecked long-range sensors. There's nothing.
JANEWAY: This is our target. You'll keep a transporter lock on me. Once I make it to the central plexus and release the virus, you can beam me back.
EMH: In how many pieces? It's ridiculous.
SEVEN: Agreed. I should go. I'm the only one with experience.
JANEWAY: You're our only connection to Unimatrix Zero. You're needed here. It was my decision to help these people. This is my responsibility.
TUVOK: Starfleet Tactical Directive thirty six. The Captain will not engage a hostile force without the protection of a Security Officer. The probability of success is greater if there are two of us.
TORRES: Make that three. If you're going to pull this off you'll need an Engineer in there.
PARIS: B'Elanna.
TORRES: Tactical directive thirty six A.
PARIS: (Aghast!)There is no directive thirty six A.
TORRES: There is now.

And if you need something more BLATANT than that... just watch season 6's "Barge of the Dead"...

TORRES: You know, you're just like her.
JANEWAY: Lieutenant?
TORRES: My mother. You're as dedicated to Starfleet principles as she was to Klingon honour. I know that we haven't always seen eye to eye, but despite our differences you helped me become a good officer and I'd like to think that you're proud of me for it.
JANEWAY: I am.
TORRES: My mother never had the chance to be proud of me. I'd like her to know me the way you do. I don't want her to die thinking of me as a disgrace. You have to let me do this.

...you know, the ep where her Mother is dressed in the uniform of a Starship Captain for the last two scenes and B'Elanna ends up in someone's (NOT Tom's) arms when she comes out of her coma.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TZrjuSUuW8











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Old January 9 2012, 12:43 AM   #332
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Please refrain from spoilers. Thank you.
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Old January 9 2012, 02:28 AM   #333
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I agree with JanewayRulz!
Plus, how can it be egotistical if it's in Janeway's head?
It's never said out loud physically.
There thoughts, unspoken words or ideas.
We are not considered guilty of what goes on in our minds. Janeway was in a coma like state and never said any of was we saw verbally.
The only one who was aware of what Janeway thinks is the alien.
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Old January 9 2012, 03:30 AM   #334
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Re: Does It Get Better???

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
As I have more time to mull over Coda it's possible that my rating will change, but for now I am standing by my 8. Yes, it is full of plot holes, but I still enjoyed it quite a bit and it really moved me.
It's your review thread and the reviews are from your personal POV. That's what makes it so great. We're getting to see how you see from your perspective, not our own.
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Old January 9 2012, 05:27 AM   #335
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Thanks for the kind words, exodus.

I just watched another couple episodes:

Blood Fever: This episode saw some nice development for Tom and B'Elanna, as well as the Vulcan ensign whom I cannot remember the name of. I especially liked the ending where we discovered the intruders were the Borg.
No real complaints, but at the same time this wasn't one of the most moving episode ever.
5/10

Unity: The first Borg episode on Voyager, and quite a good one at that. This was quite a different portrayal of the Borg. Similar to I, Borg, the Borg were portrayed as sympathetic characters, and while it is a big departure from the Borg we saw in TBOBW, I still quite liked it. My favorite scene of the entire episode was when Chakotay linked with the Borg and saw all of their thoughts. On the topic of Chakotay, I would also like to say that I'm happy he finally got an episode of his own (Tatoo doesn't count because it was pretty mediocre). I really like the way he was used in this episode. Janeway was also faced with a difficult decision, but I think she made the right choice in not reactivating the Borg Cube because of the threat that it posed (even if Chakotay did eventually reactivate himself).
All in all this was a very solid and enjoyable episode, and a great new look at the Borg!
8/10
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Old January 9 2012, 05:44 AM   #336
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Re: Does It Get Better???

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
Blood Fever: This episode saw some nice development for Tom and B'Elanna, as well as the Vulcan ensign whom I cannot remember the name of. I especially liked the ending where we discovered the intruders were the Borg.
No real complaints, but at the same time this wasn't one of the most moving episode ever.
5/10
The ensign is Vorik, who's the identical twin brother of Taurik from TNG Lower Decks.
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Old January 9 2012, 06:26 AM   #337
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Re: Does It Get Better???

And despite being producer Jeri Taylor's son, the real reason that he must have gotten such a prolific part in this episode beyond... This is one of the two episodes that Wang was banned form the set for chronic tardiness (Along with the according reduction in his salary).
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Old January 9 2012, 07:09 AM   #338
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Re: Does It Get Better???

^Do you have sources for that? This is news to me.
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Old January 9 2012, 07:12 AM   #339
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Re: Does It Get Better???

He mentions almost being fired during the third season for not being punctual in this interview at Startrek.com. Google couldn't find anything more specific, but it lines up with the episodes mentioned.
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Old January 9 2012, 07:30 AM   #340
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Harvey wrote: View Post
He mentions almost being fired during the third season for not being punctual in this interview at Startrek.com. Google couldn't find anything more specific, but it lines up with the episodes mentioned.
There were other sources online and off that mentioned that before. Apparently the original idea was to have Kim killed off the show, but last minute, Kes (Jennifer Lien) got the boot. Many believe this had to do with Wang being nominated one of tv's most beautiful people that year and they thought it'd hurt the ratings. I'm not sure how true that is, but I wouldn't be too surprised. I liked Harry, but to me, he really outlived his use and purpose on the show and should have had an exit, whether it be death or something else.
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Old January 9 2012, 07:41 AM   #341
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I've heard about Harry being scheduled to be terminated instead of Kes. The tardiness/being banned from the set/salary reduction stuff was news to me though.
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Old January 9 2012, 08:38 AM   #342
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Re: Does It Get Better???

We don't know that Admiralscreed knows about that situation though!! So that's kind of a spoiler.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Garret Wang was suspended as well, I've read that in multiple places. The fact that he couldn't even arrive on set on time and was a bad actor just makes it smart even more that he didn't get released at the end of season 3. His character *definitely* had potential but I don't feel the actor was up for it and I think the writers knew it.

@Janewayrulz
You are completely missing my point. I know that Janeway and B'Ellana had a mother/daughter dynamic but this is a season 3 episode and the memorial is all going on in Janeway's head. My point is that its incredibly egotistical to assume that you've had a life-changing effect on someone's life and envisage everyone gushing about you at your own funeral talking about how amazing you were. That just messed up and absolutely pointless to the story since its not even the real B'Ellana so technically we don't know how B'Ellana really feels at this point. And I know I'm not alone in feeling that that is only one of many problems with this poor episode.
Also your example from Unimatrix Zero is absolutely baffling, I don't see anything in that exchange that expresses any feelings between B'Ellana and Janeway. You're obviously trying to find some sort of subtext in absolutely any scene in which the two feature. The one in "Barge of the Dead" is an obvious one and its actually my 2nd favorite Trek episode of all time, but "Unimatrix Zero" doesn't show anything.

-----------------------------------


RE: Blood Fever - I'm not a fan of this episode but its not terrible. It just feels like a dirty episode to me, all the close camera angles and sweating, just icky. Also the climax with the fight at the end was kinda lame. I do appreciate that it builds the relationship between Tom and B'Ellana though.

Re: Unity - now THIS is an episode that deserves a score of 8. I thought it was a pretty genius concept to show the good side of being in a collective. Can you imagine if this world was suddenly formed into a collective like the Borg? There would be instant peace and harmony. Great episode, well executed.

Oh and yes AdmiralScreed, its great hearing your opinions but I'm sure you appreciate hearing other's opinions especially if they're wildly different, no?
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Last edited by You_Will_Fail; January 9 2012 at 11:30 AM.
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Old January 9 2012, 03:28 PM   #343
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Re: Does It Get Better???

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Oh and yes AdmiralScreed, its great hearing your opinions but I'm sure you appreciate hearing other's opinions especially if they're wildly different, no?
Oh yes, I most certainly do appreciate hearing everyone else's opinions. Keep them coming!
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Old January 10 2012, 12:05 AM   #344
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Garret was number 18. So shiny. Although to hear Wang talk, it's because he rocked out this Q and A once at a convention like he was Elvis. Teenagers throwing underwear and everything.

As far as B'Elanna's relationship with Janeway goes, remember Chakotay's It's a Wonderful Life speech in Shattered about B'Elanna and the rest of the crew? Opinions on the woman's positive impact, which were external to her monstrous ego exist. Though that frakk soooooooooooooooooooo drank the coolaide.

If B'Elanna had her was, Janeway would affectionately be calling her "Lanni".
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Old January 10 2012, 01:45 AM   #345
AdmiralScreed
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Darkling: A unremarkable episode. I didn't care too much for "Evil Doctor." And the aliens of the week weren't particularly interesting. Still, this episode did have its good moments. I liked the scenes on the holodeck with the historical figures, and the Doctor's scene with B'Elanna at the beginning was quite funny. I also liked most of the scenes with Kes.
4/10

Last edited by AdmiralScreed; January 10 2012 at 02:44 AM. Reason: Changed My Rating
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