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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old January 6 2012, 05:32 PM   #1501
22 Stars
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

I wouldn't call TNG 'cheaper' by any stretch. At approx 1 million per episode, it boasted a very high budget esp. for a syndicated sci-fi show.
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Old January 6 2012, 06:12 PM   #1502
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

How about "unrefined"?
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Old January 6 2012, 06:20 PM   #1503
JarodRussell
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Sorry, but I simply don't see it.

The farpoint aliens really do look like ropes stuck on some plates now.
I mean what the hell. It looks like a very complex and organic model to me. All the details that finally spring out. It's actually transparent and glows from the inside. Holy cow. Certainly not ropes glued on some plates. Not at all.
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Old January 6 2012, 06:22 PM   #1504
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Well, the scene where their tendrils touch is a little..."unrefined". That in particular looks like puppetry, but overall the models hold up well.
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Old January 6 2012, 10:43 PM   #1505
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

I don't think the models aren't detailed or skillfully built. It's just that having such a clear image (and what seems to be a dialing-down of the glow effect) makes them look very small and model-y in some shots. Especially the tentacle-bump.
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Old January 7 2012, 02:02 AM   #1506
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Let me be clear. I said budget and technology is what held back early TNG. Sure, it was expensive, but that doesn't mean all that money went into visuals for the show. For a pilot, they had to build everything from scratch (except the corridors. I know. Don't piss on me for that). The bridge set is mostly there, but a few finishing touches aren't applied until season 2. Now, season 2 is a whole other ball game thanks to the behind the scenes problems of creative bullshit (the writers really had free reign to go nuts for most of the season) and the writers strike (Shades of Grey. 'nuff said). But thats neither here nor there when it comes to visuals.

Now, those Farpoint aliens? Always looked a little goofy, but the fuzzy glow around the SD versions gave them some substance which I feel the HD version has taken away, making the tendrils far more spindly and rope like than they initially did. This is one issue. Overall I'm jumping for joy at TNG-HD and everything else I've seen looks fantastic. The Enterprise herself is a thing of beauty. The fact is though, the Farpoint aliens are first spaceship/alien of the week that were never seen again. Of course they didn't have the same level of polish applied to them.

Now, is that a budget/technology issue? Perhaps, but It's probably more of a time issue come to think of it. Thats why we got shots like this: http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...point1_035.jpg in the pilot, which are blatantly a single shot of the model with the incorrect glows painted on afterward as opposed to the usual multi-pass composite. EaF is rife with stuff like this. Ok, sure, it got better during the first and second seasons, but I maintain the show didn't find its footing (visually) until season 3. Episodes like Conspiracy and Q, Who? really do help to debunk my argument mind you, but they still look rough around the edges vs the later seasons. The HD process will do a lot to remedy this, but the weird lighting of season 1 and 2 will not be fixed, it may be tempered somewhat, but it won't match the style the show maintained from season 3 onward thanks to the way in which it was made. Which is probably a combination of budget, technology, time and lets face it, stylistic choices.

Or as The Festivus Toad (Squiggy?) aptly pointed out better than I could - simply "unrefined".
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Old January 7 2012, 02:23 AM   #1507
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Off topic, but the recent trailer reminded me of just how great and magical the musical scores were in the first season. Not sure what happened in later seasons. Does anyone know if there was a change in composers?
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Old January 7 2012, 02:27 AM   #1508
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

When Robert Justman left after season one, it left Rick Berman in charge of the music for the show. Justman liked lush, melodramatic scores while Berman preferred "sonic wallpaper," as it has been described. This led to Ron Jones being fired during the fourth season, and Dennis McCarthy and Jay Chattaway writing less thematic music as time went on.
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Old January 7 2012, 02:32 AM   #1509
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Harvey wrote: View Post
When Robert Justman left after season one, it left Rick Berman in charge of the music for the show. Justman liked lush, melodramatic scores while Berman preferred "sonic wallpaper," as it has been described. This led to Ron Jones being fired during the fourth season, and Dennis McCarthy and Jay Chattaway writing less thematic music as time went on.
What a shame that that happened. I didn't care a whole lot for the music in the later seasons.
I guess that's one more thing to blame Rick Berman for.
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Old January 7 2012, 02:36 PM   #1510
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Shocking number of comments (on EW and Face****) complaining the FX look crappy and that the picture is barely any improvement. They also want new CGI effects, which 9 times out of 10 will look worse than the newly composited effects!

I can only assume these people have bad eyesight? The improvement in image quality and VFX is like going from black and white to colour, which is what we knew would happen all along because we are going from analog betamax masters to 1080p scanned from 35mm film...

Thank goodness CBS don't listen to the masses!
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Old January 7 2012, 02:38 PM   #1511
JarodRussell
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Flake wrote: View Post
Shocking number of comments (on EW and Face****) complaining the FX look crappy and that the picture is barely any improvement. They also want new CGI effects, which 9 times out of 10 will look worse than the newly composited effects!

I can only assume these people have bad eyesight? The improvement in image quality and VFX is like going from black and white to colour, which is what we knew would happen all along because we are going from analog betamax masters to 1080p scanned from 35mm film...

Thank goodness CBS don't listen to the masses!
This!
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Old January 7 2012, 02:57 PM   #1512
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

OTOH the current CBS policy of releasing samples with low bitrate flash video does not help their cause. They would get better feedback if they released some 1440 x 1080 uncompessed bmp or tga files vs screencaps from the DVDs. THAT would silence some of the bad-eyesight people
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Old January 7 2012, 03:47 PM   #1513
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

^Totally. It's hard to promote a product properly when you're not getting to see a true representation of the finished product.
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Old January 7 2012, 06:45 PM   #1514
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Flake wrote: View Post
Shocking number of comments (on EW and Face****) complaining the FX look crappy and that the picture is barely any improvement. They also want new CGI effects, which 9 times out of 10 will look worse than the newly composited effects!

I can only assume these people have bad eyesight? The improvement in image quality and VFX is like going from black and white to colour, which is what we knew would happen all along because we are going from analog betamax masters to 1080p scanned from 35mm film...

Thank goodness CBS don't listen to the masses!
Some people are also complaining that the aspect ratio is 4:3 rather than 16:9. A minority of those people also appear to believe that the series was originally framed for widescreen.
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Old January 7 2012, 08:09 PM   #1515
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

I would just like to say...I take back most of what I said. I just watched The Last Outpost, and I must say....that should look pretty great in HD. I can't fault that episode for any visual reason.
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