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Old January 6 2012, 01:23 AM   #136
JanewayRulz!
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

^^ Okay... you don't get it. So?
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Old January 6 2012, 02:14 AM   #137
Capt.Jaysee
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Interesting that many people are ready to send Janeway fans off to the asylum. You sprout things like 'find a real person to be your hero'. Well just cause a person is REAL, doesn't mean that the things those people do to inspire people are real.

Do you think JFK is real? NO!. His policies were created by many minds and his speeches were written by another mans inflictions. REAL???

What about Elvis??? He suppose to be real, but wait; he sung songs from other people's hearts, the songwriter's thoughts.

Debate all you want, but Janeway is no less real then anyone who inspired another. Living and breathing or pages in a book...doesn't really matter if they bring you joy!
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Old January 6 2012, 02:31 AM   #138
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

I wish the writers would bring JFK and Elvis back. Quick, let's start a petition!
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Old January 6 2012, 04:03 AM   #139
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Capt.Jaysee wrote: View Post
Interesting that many people are ready to send Janeway fans off to the asylum.
Do you think JFK is real? NO!. His policies were created by many minds and his speeches were written by another mans inflictions. REAL???

What about Elvis??? He suppose to be real, but wait; he sung songs from other people's hearts, the songwriter's thoughts.
You're not making a very good case for yourself.
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Old January 6 2012, 08:55 AM   #140
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Capt.Jaysee wrote: View Post
Interesting that many people are ready to send Janeway fans off to the asylum. You sprout things like 'find a real person to be your hero'. Well just cause a person is REAL, doesn't mean that the things those people do to inspire people are real.

Do you think JFK is real? NO!. His policies were created by many minds and his speeches were written by another mans inflictions. REAL???

What about Elvis??? He suppose to be real, but wait; he sung songs from other people's hearts, the songwriter's thoughts.

Debate all you want, but Janeway is no less real then anyone who inspired another. Living and breathing or pages in a book...doesn't really matter if they bring you joy!
I have to agree with your statement here. I'm a bit annoyed myself over the attitude from some people about those who dare stand up for something they believe in.

Mind you, we who are dissatisfied with the treatment of Janeway in those books aren't freaks or lunatics. We are normal people with other interests outside Star Trek.

I myself has gotten the reputation of being a die-hard Kes fan and sometimes being called mad too. But I got other interests in life besides Kes, Voyager and Star Trek. I don't spend the days trying to figure out Kes campaigns or sulking about how Kes was treated, in fact during my daily life I hardly think about it. It's when I decide to watch a Voyager episode, read a Voyager book or check out what's going on on different forums I think about it and when it comes to visiting the forums, I might get involved in certain debates.

And no, I don't think that Kes is a real person, I don't mix up Kes with Jennifer Lien (even if I do think that both the character and the actress were ill-treated by those in charge) and I don't spend my days dressed in a Starfleet uniform either.

I guess it's the same for most Trek fans and in this case for the Janeway fans who dare to express their opinions.

What I often do (and that is something I share with the ardent Janeway fans on this forum) is to speak out when I find something wrong.

When something I like, something which gives me a certain amount of pleasure and entertainment is ruined, then I speak out what I think about it and I do think that it's my right to do so.

What I really dislike are people who just bow their heads to the authorities. If more people dared to speak out about what they find wrong (and believe me, I wish that would be true about more serious things than Star Trek), then the world might be a better place.

When it comes to the Trek books, there was a time when I really enjoyed to read those books, especially the Voyager books but right now i'm very dissatisfied about the direction of those books, mainly because so many great characters are missing.

Janeway is one of my favorites too and for me, the annihilation of Janeway was "the Kes thing" repeated all over again, this time by other people than Berman's staff, people which I expected would do a better job that those in charge of the TV series. I might have been naive but I was hoping that they would correct some of the things which were done during the TV series. Instead it has become even worse and that's when I think it's time to put down the foot and say "no, I don't accept this".

Someone mentioned Data and a campaign for him. I would gladly participate in such a campaign because I think it would be easy to restore Data and have him back in the TNG books. As a matter of fact, I don't read the TNG books either because certain good characters are missing there too.

Remember, it's the people who speak out and dare to stand up for what thyey believe in who changes the world and create history.
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Old January 6 2012, 10:29 AM   #141
Killandra
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
^^ Okay... you don't get it. So?
Indeed. Some get it, some don't. I am a Janeway fan and yes, she was a role model for me as I was growing up. Many have had a fictional hero or two as they grew up: Batman, Robin Hood, etc. Some women in my age group took Xena as their fictional hero- mine just happened to be Janeway.

Perhaps some Janeway fans do go overboard, but I see that in fans of everyone and everything. I can't explain everyone else's actions, etc., but I can say/ask who doesn't have a sense of loyalty to their heroes, real or imagined? I don't think I'm rabid, delusional, or any other choice words or assumptions Janeway fans have been labeled in this thread.

I just simply love Janeway, she was a childhood hero, and thought her death was unnecessary and would like to have her back in the books. Simply put, Voyager without Janeway makes as much since as Next Gen without Picard. Nothing more or less.
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Old January 6 2012, 10:36 AM   #142
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Killandra wrote: View Post
They should have let TNG go and let DS9 or Voyager take over the movie reigns or just not made a movie at all. I know that's a hard pill to swallow for TNG fans, but TNG had it's time in the sun and it was well past the time to pass the movie torch as well...
Ummm, the TV ratings for TNG in first-run syndication were stupendous (as were TOS in prime time syndicated repeat), and that in-built audience, plus the general public, was attracted to see TOS and TNG movies on the big screen.

Audiences for DS9 and VOY and ENT (the last two on a fledgling TV network that wasn't even broadcasting to some parts of the USA) got smaller and smaller and smaller. None of those series were viable properties for the big screen.
DS9 and Voyager didn't carry like TNG, agreed, but that aside, the TNG movies kept selling worse and worse with the exception of First Contact. I stand by the statement, Nemesis should have not been made. Either no movie at all (perhaps the preferable alternative) or moved on with another Trek to cover in the box office. Nemesis hurt more than helped TNG in my mind.

Link to box office sales data: http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/series/StarTrek.php
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Old January 6 2012, 11:37 AM   #143
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Killandra wrote: View Post
moved on with another Trek to cover in the box office.
As I said, none of the latter three series were viable properties for the big screen. Paramount had hopes that ENT would be the next movie franchise, and Scott Bakula's five-year contract guaranteed him an option of two movies made by Paramount.

But DS9, VOY and ENT's audiences were miniscule - and falling - compared to their TV predecessors. Yes, INS and NEM failed to provide the numbers needed by Paramount. The law of diminishing returns, which happens to most film sequels in a franchise at some point. But, as fans said at the time of NEM flopping, they'd had 18 years straight of new ST on TV, which they could watch for free. Movie studios were spending huge amounts on blockbusters, and ST hadn't been receiving blockbuster funding since TMP in 1979. The cheaper films were also more profitable and less risky.

Star Trek had to get pretty special again, all of a sudden, to make audiences want to start paying for it again. A post-Sisko DS9 movie, or a Voyager in the Alpha Quadrant movie, was never gonna cut it. Too few people know those shows. Even today.

And thus... JJ Abrams remade TOS for new generations.
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Old January 6 2012, 07:46 PM   #144
Capt.Jaysee
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
Capt.Jaysee wrote: View Post
Interesting that many people are ready to send Janeway fans off to the asylum.
Do you think JFK is real? NO!. His policies were created by many minds and his speeches were written by another mans inflictions. REAL???

What about Elvis??? He suppose to be real, but wait; he sung songs from other people's hearts, the songwriter's thoughts.
You're not making a very good case for yourself.
I don't need to make a case for myself, I'm simply expressing what I feel.
.......................
A lot of judging in this thread, accusations, insults all for what?

Is there anything to gain from it, other than a brief respite from boredom?

Leave you guys to it...Off to watch VOYAGER...
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Old January 6 2012, 09:06 PM   #145
Therin of Andor
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Capt.Jaysee wrote: View Post
What about Elvis??? He suppose to be real, but wait; he sung songs from other people's hearts, the songwriter's thoughts.
Eight songs written by Elvis Presley:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._Elvis_Presley
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Old January 6 2012, 11:26 PM   #146
Killandra
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Capt.Jaysee wrote: View Post
What about Elvis??? He suppose to be real, but wait; he sung songs from other people's hearts, the songwriter's thoughts.
Eight songs written by Elvis Presley:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._Elvis_Presley
Yeah, I have to say I wasn't getting the whole Elvis not being real reference. True, he didn't write all his own songs- few musicians do, but I don't see where he has any relevance to the Janeway argument.
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Last edited by Killandra; January 6 2012 at 11:26 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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Old January 7 2012, 08:07 AM   #147
Capt.Jaysee
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Killandra wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Capt.Jaysee wrote: View Post
What about Elvis??? He suppose to be real, but wait; he sung songs from other people's hearts, the songwriter's thoughts.
Eight songs written by Elvis Presley:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._Elvis_Presley
Yeah, I have to say I wasn't getting the whole Elvis not being real reference. True, he didn't write all his own songs- few musicians do, but I don't see where he has any relevance to the Janeway argument.
Niether does flaming people for wanting Janeway back! Share your opinion, but don't go on and on about it. You know this thread was created for Janeway fans, you knew that commenting against it, would cause arguments. That was the intent.

Grow up!
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Old January 7 2012, 08:19 AM   #148
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Capt.Jaysee wrote: View Post
Killandra wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post

Eight songs written by Elvis Presley:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._Elvis_Presley
Yeah, I have to say I wasn't getting the whole Elvis not being real reference. True, he didn't write all his own songs- few musicians do, but I don't see where he has any relevance to the Janeway argument.
Niether does flaming people for wanting Janeway back! Share your opinion, but don't go on and on about it. You know this thread was created for Janeway fans, you knew that commenting against it, would cause arguments. That was the intent.

Grow up!
Can't see where people are being flamed here and the thread is open to the public for everybody to comment (as far as I can see but the Mods. can decide that).

I've looked at the petition.

http://www.change.org/petitions/pock...r-trek-voyager

May I make a suggestion? How about checking the language in it so it isn't quite so emotive and defensive?

Check out other petitions at this website and see how the language being used compares to yours.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/

Best to stay objective and present your arguments clearly and concisely.

Hope that helps!

Chuckling
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Old January 7 2012, 08:42 AM   #149
Therin of Andor
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Capt.Jaysee wrote: View Post
Niether does flaming people for wanting Janeway back!
Who is flaming? Killandra is a Janeway fan, but then so am I, so who are you talking to here?

Share your opinion, but don't go on and on about it.
So report the offending posts to the mods.

You know this thread was created for Janeway fans, you knew that commenting against it, would cause arguments. That was the intent.

Grow up!
I thought it was a discussion?
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Old January 7 2012, 10:24 AM   #150
Killandra
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Capt.Jaysee wrote: View Post
Killandra wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post

Eight songs written by Elvis Presley:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._Elvis_Presley
Yeah, I have to say I wasn't getting the whole Elvis not being real reference. True, he didn't write all his own songs- few musicians do, but I don't see where he has any relevance to the Janeway argument.
Niether does flaming people for wanting Janeway back! Share your opinion, but don't go on and on about it. You know this thread was created for Janeway fans, you knew that commenting against it, would cause arguments. That was the intent.

Grow up!
Capt. Jaysee,

Perhaps before telling me to "grow up", you should go back and actually read my posts, you will see that I am in fact a Janeway fan. I have said repetitively actually how she is a childhood hero of mine.

I have not flamed anyone. Nor do I see how the above quote of mine that you commented on was a flame. Never once did I comment against Janeway or spit venom to anyone on this thread. I have, however tried to find common ground for everyone involved. Truth be told, I actually suggested to someone posting about the petition on the "other trek board" that they perhaps post it here as well. Your attack against me was completely unfounded and unnecessary.
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