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Old January 1 2012, 01:05 AM   #76
Syn.Sixx
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

DigificWriter wrote: View Post

If all you were trying to do was 'get the word out' about the petition's existence, the title of this thread wouldn't be 'Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please'.

Even if it wasn't your intent, the way you chose to broach this subject - a petition for the 'Bring Back Janeway' cause - was very confrontational, especially given how volatile previous instances where this topic has been broached have been.
So.. let me just get this in my head...

Because I was polite, and added the world "please" to the title .. you want to twist that action into some sort of conspiracy where it's confrontational?

Do you really even believe in the hooey that you're trying to sell me?

It was a simple courtesy, adding a 'please' to the title rather than just a statement or a demand.

You make me laugh really. You're so determined to degrade me and everyone else who supports returning Janeway in the books by any means possible, you have even stooped to making that absurd accusation.

Really. You're proving my point for me better than anything else I could have said myself!
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Old January 1 2012, 01:08 AM   #77
Gotham Central
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Blacglac wrote: View Post
T
Besides, it's not like we're asking for her to come back immediately, just bring her back eventually. Don't hang a lantern on her story and forget about her. Could you do that to Picard? Or Sisko? Or Kirk? Or any other character from Star Trek???
Actually some people are demanding that she be resurrected immediately. In fact, some of the people here have been demanding it since it happened.

I've said before that I would have no objection to them writing stories about Janeway's adventures set prior to her death (say during the journey across the Delta Quadrant). But she should NOT be brought back from the dead. Like Kirk, tell stories set during her lifetime, but don't resurrect her for stories set in the 2380s.
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Old January 1 2012, 01:10 AM   #78
DS9forever
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

It would be a bit stupid to have adventures aboard the Voyager and then to cut back to Admiral Janeway back on Earth. Janeway died a hero; her story is over.
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Old January 1 2012, 01:11 AM   #79
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Blacglac wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Blacglac wrote: View Post
If you don't want to sign the petition, then don't. No-one is making you, or trying to make you.
All we are doing is trying to spread the message in as many places as possible, so that those that would like to see Janeway return to the series can get involved with others who share that viewpoint. This isn't about forcing our opinion down your throat
I'm sorry, but that's a whole lot of BS. If all you guys were trying to do was 'get the word out' about the petition's existence, the title of this thread wouldn't be 'Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please', and people like Syx, Brit, and Lynx wouldn't be spouting off ridiculous and ultimately wrong ideas about why signing this petition is something that people should care about doing.
And how else do you let folks know what they're going to get?
Also, given the title and your apparent dis-like bordering on patronising attitude for those who want it to succeed:
Why did you open the thread? Seems as if you opened just to spout off about how everyone who wants Janeway back is wrong and you are right in thinking she's better off gone...
Bit arrogant and attention seeking, no?
First of all, I edited the comment you quoted out of my last post because I realized that it was better served for me to respond to Syx than to you, since you both more or less brought up the same issue.

Second, I have never once said or indicated that I think that Janeway is better off gone. I am an admitted Kathryn Janeway fan, but I'm not one of those people who thinks that she absolutely has to be involved in Voyager stories in order for those stories to actually qualify AS Voyager stories, or for those stories to be of any worth.

In previous instances where this topic has been broached here, I - and others who disagree with the sentiment expressed by you, Syx, Brit, Lynx, and others - have been attacked for not being in 'lockstep' with said sentiment, and, as I said to Syx in the edit to my previous post, the manner in which the subject was broached this time around was very confrontational, even if it wasn't intended to be.

Now, even though I edited the comment you quoted out of my last post, I nevertheless stand by the idea that everything you said is BS because it is not supported by the ways in which you and/or others have broached this subject in the past, nor is it supported by the way in which Syx broached the subject this time around.

If you don't want to be responded to with confrontation, don't come in here behaving in a confrontational fashion, intentionally or otherwise, particularly as it concerns this particular issue/topic.

I came into this thread in the first place because of the duplicate thread that was posted in the Trek Lit forum, and only initially posted in this iteration of it in response to what I saw as blatant examples of the condescension and arrogance that has been previously demonstrated by individuals who champion the 'Bring Back Janeway' cause towards individuals who do not think said cause is actually something that needs to be championed.
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Old January 1 2012, 01:19 AM   #80
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Brit wrote: View Post
If fans refuse to buy the books they don't want to read, and the publishers starts to lose money, then the publisher gets writers to write the books fans want.
And Kirsten Beyer's VOY novels are selling extremely well. More people reading VOY fiction than when the TV series was airing, it would seem.

Brit wrote: View Post
I am just as unhappy with the way Trek lit has mutilated Ben Sisko's character.
It was a canonical DS9 script that had The Prophets proclaim that if Sisko married Kassidy, he would "know only sorrow". He went ahead and married her.

How has Sisko's character been unfairly mutilated by the novels that goes against canon?
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Old January 1 2012, 01:20 AM   #81
DigificWriter
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Syn.Sixx wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post

If all you were trying to do was 'get the word out' about the petition's existence, the title of this thread wouldn't be 'Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please'.

Even if it wasn't your intent, the way you chose to broach this subject - a petition for the 'Bring Back Janeway' cause - was very confrontational, especially given how volatile previous instances where this topic has been broached have been.
So.. let me just get this in my head...

Because I was polite, and added the world "please" to the title .. you want to twist that action into some sort of conspiracy where it's confrontational?

Do you really even believe in the hooey that you're trying to sell me?

It was a simple courtesy, adding a 'please' to the title rather than just a statement or a demand.

You make me laugh really. You're so determined to degrade me and everyone else who supports returning Janeway in the books by any means possible, you have even stooped to making that absurd accusation.

Really. You're proving my point for me better than anything else I could have said myself!
As I said earlier in both this thread and the duplicate one in Trek Lit, you can't beg or ask people to support your cause.

The appropriate and non-confrontational way to have made this petition's existence known would have been something like the following:
Myself and other members of the Voyager fandom who wish to see the character of Kathryn Janeway returned to the post-finale Voyager fiction have begun an online petition hoping to convince the individuals responsible for publishing those novels to bring her back.

If you are interested in signing this petition, you can do so here [insert link to the petition].
Edited to note that your original post in this particular version of this topic thread was much less confrontational than the one you posted in Trek Lit. However, you did come across as rather confrontatinal in said duplicate thread, and, as noted, included in your OP in said duplicate thread several false ideas as to the motivations behind the actions/decisions taken in terms of Kathryn Janeway's character and the Voyager Relaunch novels.
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Old January 1 2012, 01:24 AM   #82
Blacglac
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
I'm not one of those people who thinks that she absolutely has to be involved in Voyager stories in order for those stories to actually qualify AS Voyager stories, or for those stories to be of any worth.

In previous instances where this topic has been broached here, I - and others who disagree with the sentiment expressed by you, Syx, Brit, Lynx, and others - have been attacked for not being in 'lockstep' with said sentiment, and, as I said to Syx in the edit to my previous post, the manner in which the subject was broached this time around was very confrontational, even if it wasn't intended to be.

Now, even though I edited the comment you quoted out of my last post, I nevertheless stand by the idea that everything you said is BS because it is not supported by the ways in which you and/or others have broached this subject in the past, nor is it supported by the way in which Syx broached the subject this time around.

If you don't want to be responded to with confrontation, don't come in here behaving in a confrontational fashion, intentionally or otherwise, particularly as it concerns this particular issue/topic.

I came into this thread in the first place because of the duplicate thread that was posted in the Trek Lit forum, and only initially posted in this iteration of it in response to what I saw as blatant examples of the condescension and arrogance that has been previously demonstrated by individuals who champion the 'Bring Back Janeway' cause towards individuals who do not think said cause is actually something that needs to be championed.
I posted here trying to bring some sort of end to this debate. Not to say one set of people are right and another set are wrong. We're all entitled to our own opinion. I personally don't agree with some people adamant in this cause because they haven't read the books at all. You can't complain about something you've never read.
Just because you don't agree with our decision to try and bring Janeway back, does not give you carte-blanche to try and tell us that we're wrong. If you don't agree, don't read. It's a simple request, and one that I find keeps stress levels down for everyone involved.
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Old January 1 2012, 01:27 AM   #83
Syn.Sixx
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Syn.Sixx wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post

If all you were trying to do was 'get the word out' about the petition's existence, the title of this thread wouldn't be 'Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please'.

Even if it wasn't your intent, the way you chose to broach this subject - a petition for the 'Bring Back Janeway' cause - was very confrontational, especially given how volatile previous instances where this topic has been broached have been.
So.. let me just get this in my head...

Because I was polite, and added the world "please" to the title .. you want to twist that action into some sort of conspiracy where it's confrontational?

Do you really even believe in the hooey that you're trying to sell me?

It was a simple courtesy, adding a 'please' to the title rather than just a statement or a demand.

You make me laugh really. You're so determined to degrade me and everyone else who supports returning Janeway in the books by any means possible, you have even stooped to making that absurd accusation.

Really. You're proving my point for me better than anything else I could have said myself!
As I said earlier in both this thread and the duplicate one in Trek Lit, you can't beg or ask people to support your cause.

The appropriate and non-confrontational way to have made this petition's existence known would have been something like the following:
Myself and other members of the Voyager fandom who wish to see the character of Kathryn Janeway returned to the post-finale Voyager fiction have begun an online petition hoping to convince the individuals responsible for publishing those novels to bring her back.

If you are interested in signing this petition, you can do so here [insert link to the petition].

You just don't stop do you? LOL!

I did ask for people to sign. I even added a courteous "please"

You really are so off base on this attempt at degradation that I have no words to really express how ludicrous your attempt to somehow make me in the wrong for how I chose to word the subject truly is.

The only person being confrontational between the two of us at least, as you put it in this entire little back and forth round is you my friend. I simply will not sit back and let you twist my words out of proper context. I have said, over and over, that we / I know others don't like Janeway. And that's okay. All we're trying to do is reach out to others who do feel the same as we ..

I have been far more respectful, and shown you considerably more courtesy than you have shown to me.

Even in bringing up the other topic, placed in the TrekLit area as it does relate to the Trek Books..

The title was/is "Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager book! Online Petition!"

There's a limit to how much text you place in the subject, and while I didn't place "please" in there as I'd changed the title slightly, its original content has nothing that is confrontational or rude. Again, the only one here who continues to be confrontational and rude is you. You're trying to twist my words, and the words of others out of their context in order to degrade our view point. Plain and simple.

Last edited by Syn.Sixx; January 1 2012 at 01:42 AM. Reason: Edited to add extra remark
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Old January 1 2012, 02:00 AM   #84
DigificWriter
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Three things:
1) You can't ask/beg people to support your cause. Note that nowhere in my example did I blatantly ask people for their support.

2) Your OP in that Trek Lit thread was full of blatantly false accusations/assumptions leveled against the current and past editors of Trek Lit. That is confrontational, as are the accusations that you and several others have leveled against me in this version of your thread thus far (see below for one such example), and that were leveled against me the last time this subject was broached.

3) FOR THE LAST FREAKING TIME, I AM A KATHRYN JANEWAY FAN, and am tired of being accused of not being so simply because I happen to disagree with the sentiment that you and others express that she should not have been 'killed off' or otherwise removed from the post-finale Voyager Relaunch fiction, or that the decision to 'kill' her off should somehow be reversed. Accusations that I 'don't like Janeway' or that I'm somehow 'not a true Voyager fan' because I'm not in 'lockstep' with your guys' opinion(s) are confrontational; they are designed to provoke confrontation because they are categorically not true.
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Old January 1 2012, 02:05 AM   #85
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
And Kirsten Beyer's VOY novels are selling extremely well. More people reading VOY fiction than when the TV series was airing, it would seem.
This is an interesting point, but I am having trouble believing it. Do you have a source with which to back this up?
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Old January 1 2012, 02:21 AM   #86
Syn.Sixx
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Three things:
1) You can't ask/beg people to support your cause. Note that nowhere in my example did I blatantly ask people for their support.

2) Your OP in that Trek Lit thread was full of blatantly false accusations/assumptions leveled against the current and past editors of Trek Lit. That is confrontational, as are the accusations that you and several others have leveled against me in this version of your thread thus far (see below for one such example), and that were leveled against me the last time this subject was broached.

3) FOR THE LAST FREAKING TIME, I AM A KATHRYN JANEWAY FAN, and am tired of being accused of not being so simply because I happen to disagree with the sentiment that you and others express that she should not have been 'killed off' or otherwise removed from the post-finale Voyager Relaunch fiction, or that the decision to 'kill' her off should somehow be reversed. Accusations that I 'don't like Janeway' or that I'm somehow 'not a true Voyager fan' because I'm not in 'lockstep' with your guys' opinion(s) are confrontational; they are designed to provoke confrontation because they are categorically not true.


In response:

1. Actually, yes I can ask people to help support the BBKJ movement. How else do we gain awareness of it? Your continued statements to the contrary are absurd and of no value whatsoever. I asked for people who agree, to sign. Just because you want to try and somehow pervert a simple action into something it was not .. does not make it so.

2. I have not been in any way as confrontational in this thread, nor the other thread. In fact, quite the contrary.
As is clear, I stated it there too.. that other view point is fine. We're just trying to reach those who might feel as we do. You can try to twist what I say all you like, but my words are there and you're wrong. you don't have to agree with me. I don't care if you liked her, loved her, hated her, didn't care enough about her to have an emotion either way! Over and over, in almost every post .. I've said I know some don't agree that's not the issue.


My remarks concerning you were based on your words, and your actions in trying to twist what I've said out of context. You have tried to take a polite request and make it into a confrontational statement which it was not. Nor were the original posts in any way as rude as you continue to be. I may have gotten some details inaccurate, but the information came to me from others and I was unable to find anything to confirm or contradict it and so I went with it. I am allowed to state my opinion, that is not confrontational either. Where as your continued hostile and pointless contributions trying to degrade our group are outright laughable, and only do us more good in fact as you're coming across as quite amusing and making sure that this thread stays very active.

Thank you for that by the way.

3. You certainly seem to like to jump to conclusions. You keep accusing me (and others I presume) of not accepting the viewpoint of those who don't want Janeway to return. I've posted over and over, that other viewpoint is quite all right and I have no problems with those who feel that way. I do have the right to express my hopes to see Janeway returned, and I have done so with far more respect than you have given to those who don't agree with your point of view in that you don't think she should return. Nor have I ever said that you are not a true Voyager fan because you don't agree with me.

It is you who shows no respect for our feelings, for our opinions, or for our hopes.

I will admit on the other thread, I was using a different computer and I multi-posted rather than using the multi-quote feature in error. As I said there and apologized for my error, I was working on some insurance related documents, had the window minimized with the Word document over it and I made a mistake. That was not confrontation or hostility, just a mistake and I apologized for it.

If you don't like this topic, then stop reading it.

I, and everyone else who does support the BBKJ movement, have just as much right to post here and discuss our hopes as you. No one is forcing you to read our posts, no one is forcing you to be part of the discussion. Go do something else.

Last edited by Syn.Sixx; January 1 2012 at 02:23 AM. Reason: formatting error
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Old January 1 2012, 02:21 AM   #87
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Brit wrote: View Post
Why don't you start a petition to keep her dead and see how many votes you get.
Because I don't care one way or another. If she's dead, she's dead. If they want to bring her back, let them bring her back. It's not my place to dictate where the story goes.
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Old January 1 2012, 03:17 AM   #88
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Brit wrote: View Post
Why don't you start a petition to keep her dead and see how many votes you get.
Because I don't care one way or another. If she's dead, she's dead. If they want to bring her back, let them bring her back. It's not my place to dictate where the story goes.
OH...NOW, you're just being confrontational by acting all all neutral and stuff
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Old January 1 2012, 03:26 AM   #89
Syn.Sixx
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Sindatur wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Brit wrote: View Post
Why don't you start a petition to keep her dead and see how many votes you get.
Because I don't care one way or another. If she's dead, she's dead. If they want to bring her back, let them bring her back. It's not my place to dictate where the story goes.
OH...NOW, you're just being confrontational by acting all all neutral and stuff
LOL

Sindatur, just wanted to say I love your avatar.. Owls are awesome.
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Old January 1 2012, 03:44 AM   #90
Sindatur
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Syn.Sixx wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post

Because I don't care one way or another. If she's dead, she's dead. If they want to bring her back, let them bring her back. It's not my place to dictate where the story goes.
OH...NOW, you're just being confrontational by acting all all neutral and stuff
LOL

Sindatur, just wanted to say I love your avatar.. Owls are awesome.
Thank you, it took me a lot of years to obtain the perfect Avatar to represent my Character Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard
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