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Old December 31 2011, 09:52 PM   #46
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

You can't even use multiquote for goodness sake...
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Old December 31 2011, 10:03 PM   #47
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

I have seen a lot of TV characters that I loved get killed off. It happens. People die. If an author thinks they can continue to tell stories in that universe without certain characters, they are more than within their rights to do so.
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Old December 31 2011, 10:07 PM   #48
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
And you still have your memories and your fan fiction.
If that is all you need then you should be glad to have Janeway back and you can still have your memories and fan fiction.
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Old December 31 2011, 10:09 PM   #49
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I have seen a lot of TV characters that I loved get killed off. It happens. People die. If an author thinks they can continue to tell stories in that universe without certain characters, they are more than within their rights to do so.
But if the "customer" wants something else, they are well within their rights to ask for what that want and continue to ask until they get it. These readers want her back. If these writers don't want to bring her back then they should get someone else that will.
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Old December 31 2011, 10:15 PM   #50
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Trip was brought back in the books, Sisko is back, Kirk was brought back in Shatner's books, Data's back in STOnline and The Needs of the Many, and Spock was brought back (considered by most with very positive results), without people having a fit about it. Only when KJ's fans want HER back (and there are many, many) do some Trekkers start to object on some obscure principle, and don't tell me it isn't because of her gender! Makes me wonder what is the matter, haven't people heard of the Trek philosophy of IDIC!?! We're supposed to be positive in Trek, but it doesn't seem that way now. Well, KJ's fans are not going away, in fact the numbers are growing, and we know it is very possible to bring her back. Just someone has to decide to (like her "death") and it will happen, and then Voyager in Trek lit will be really Voyager again, with it's soul intact, not just sort of Voyager the way it is now. Bring her back, we know she lives!
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Old December 31 2011, 10:30 PM   #51
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Brit wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I have seen a lot of TV characters that I loved get killed off. It happens. People die. If an author thinks they can continue to tell stories in that universe without certain characters, they are more than within their rights to do so.
But if the "customer" wants something else, they are well within their rights to ask for what that want and continue to ask until they get it. These readers want her back. If these writers don't want to bring her back then they should get someone else that will.
That's not how fiction works.
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Old December 31 2011, 10:40 PM   #52
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

I wish that some of the comments here were not so harsh towards Voyager and Janeway. Granted, the series had its flaws, but so does every television series. Nothing is ever perfect.

Janeway had her strengths and weaknesses, but that is what made her human. It is what made Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Archer and every other Starfleet captain human. I don't think it's right for there to be bias against Janeway simply because she was a woman; we should be beyond that kind of prejudice now in our society.

We were given an open end at the end of "Before Dishonor", which still leaves the possibility for Janeway to return. My view on that is, if it can be done plausibly and the story be logical, then bring Janeway back. I've been reading the latest Voyager novels, and they do not have the same feel that the show did without Janeway present. I'm surprised that they would not have kept her around for the position of Fleet Admiral; that would have been a great role for her.
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Old December 31 2011, 10:47 PM   #53
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Brit wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I have seen a lot of TV characters that I loved get killed off. It happens. People die. If an author thinks they can continue to tell stories in that universe without certain characters, they are more than within their rights to do so.
But if the "customer" wants something else, they are well within their rights to ask for what that want and continue to ask until they get it. These readers want her back. If these writers don't want to bring her back then they should get someone else that will.
That's not how fiction works.
LOL that is exactly how fiction works, all you have to do for a plot is ask the right question.
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Old December 31 2011, 11:16 PM   #54
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

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As for representing "a small sample" of the Voyager fans, I'm not so sure about that. Many Voyager fans have simply turned their backs on the relaunch books because of the "changes"and aren't even participating in those debates.
You're dreaming. Paramount and CBS already know, from decades of tie-in sales - that less than 1% of the viewing audience buy the tie-in novels. Saying "many Voyager fans have already turned their backs" is incorrect; up to 99% of VOY viewers have never read a VOY novel.

Firstly, sales of the Relaunch books are better than the early days of numbered VOY and DS9 novels which, we were told, were Pocket's worst-selling lines. As Christie Golden's novels began showing better sales figures, she became custodian of the Relaunch. Even though those four books were panned by many readers, the sales figures were excellent, and the books went into multiple reprints.

Secondly, "many" of the fans you are talking about told us - right here - that, apart from "Mosaic", they never used to read the old VOY novels anyway, preferring free fanfics they can download to any licensed VOY novels they have to pay for. So those who have blackbanned the licensed tie-ins are actually only a handful of that 1% of the viewing audience.

In the reverse of all that, the Kirsten Beyer VOY novels are selling very well, having gained new readers: ST fans who read other ST novels but not VOY novels, plus other fans curious about the "death of Janeway" storyline. If the death-of-Janeway-aftermath books were selling worse than Golden's, we wouldn't be seeing more and more books being commissioned to Kirsten Beyer.

Then we also have those who hated the series and Janeway as well and who might find this new course of the events more appealing. I'm constantly running into those who participate in this debate who never liked the TV series and only show up on the Voyager forum when a thread about the books and/or a campaign for bringing back Janeway starts to praise the new direction of the books and in some cases show their happiness over the fact that Janeway was ditched. Are they really Voyager fans? I'm not so sure about that.
Maybe they weren't. But they are now, and will probably go buy a few boxed sets of DVDs to see what they missed. Win/win for CBS. New fans are needed once all the older fans have bought everything they need.

I know that there are many Voyager fans who buy the books too but I'm sure that even more should buy them if they were about the Voyager crew from the series.
And they are. I hear they are only missing Janeway and Tuvok at the moment. Tuvok has spun-off into "Titan", where he and his wife are popular, valued characters.
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Old December 31 2011, 11:19 PM   #55
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Galekarens wrote: View Post
Trip was brought back in the books, Sisko is back, Kirk was brought back in Shatner's books, Data's back in STOnline and The Needs of the Many, and Spock was brought back (considered by most with very positive results), without people having a fit about it. Only when KJ's fans want HER back (and there are many, many) do some Trekkers start to object on some obscure principle, and don't tell me it isn't because of her gender! Makes me wonder what is the matter, haven't people heard of the Trek philosophy of IDIC!?! We're supposed to be positive in Trek, but it doesn't seem that way now. Well, KJ's fans are not going away, in fact the numbers are growing, and we know it is very possible to bring her back. Just someone has to decide to (like her "death") and it will happen, and then Voyager in Trek lit will be really Voyager again, with it's soul intact, not just sort of Voyager the way it is now. Bring her back, we know she lives!
The Shatner books, Trek Online and enve the JJ Verse/Countdown comics are NOT part of Trek Lit continuity. Sisko was NEVER dead and said that he would return...how many times do you people need to be told that! Those characters that were killed remain dead in TrekLit. Kirk...STILL DEAD. Data...STILL DEAD. Conversely, Janeway IS ALIVE in the same Trek Online Universe with Data.

How about this...push Kate Mulgrew to write her own novels with Admiral Janeway so that, like Shatner, they can exist outside of the regular timeline and the rest of us can go on enjoying her not being a part of mainline Trek Lit. But for fraks sake...stop pretending like this is some kind of conspiracy. Let characters that die stay dead. Spock's resurrection was miraculous precisely because it never happens.
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Old December 31 2011, 11:22 PM   #56
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Violet.Phoenix wrote: View Post
I'm surprised that they would not have kept her around for the position of Fleet Admiral; that would have been a great role for her.
In fact, feisty Admiral Janeway made regular appearances in the "A Time..." maxi-series: nine novels covering the missing TNG years between "Insurrection" and "Nemesis".

But that isn't what some Janeway fans wanted. They seemingly wanted her busted back to captain, just like the movies did to Admiral Kirk (twice) - so she could keep her trusty Voyager crew together.

Galekarens wrote: View Post
Data's back in STOnline and The Needs of the Many
And so is Admiral Janeway, so your point is...?

Well, KJ's fans are not going away, in fact the numbers are growing, and we know it is very possible to bring her back. Just someone has to decide to (like her "death") and it will happen, and then Voyager in Trek lit will be really Voyager again, with it's soul intact, not just sort of Voyager the way it is now. Bring her back, we know she lives!
So, Admiral Janeway somehow gets back a mortal body from Lady Q, asks for a demotion and coerces all of her old crew to get back on that ship with her? Didn't I see that story as the climax to a telemovie called "Rescue from Gilligan's Island"
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Old December 31 2011, 11:26 PM   #57
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Violet.Phoenix wrote: View Post
I don't think it's right for there to be bias against Janeway simply because she was a woman; we should be beyond that kind of prejudice now in our society.
You realize that the ONLY people that ever mention the fact that Janeway was a woman are her fans. Her detractors never even mention her gender. What's worse, her fans are so obsessed with her gender that they think that she should be exempt from any of the dangers that her male colleagues face. In effect they want her protected BECAUSE she is a woman.
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Old December 31 2011, 11:28 PM   #58
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Violet.Phoenix wrote: View Post
I'm surprised that they would not have kept her around for the position of Fleet Admiral; that would have been a great role for her.
In fact, feisty Admiral Janeway made regular appearances in the "A Time..." maxi-series: nine novels covering the missing TNG years between "Insurrection" and "Nemesis".

But that isn't what some Janeway fans wanted. They seemingly wanted her busted back to captain, just like the movies did to Admiral Kirk (twice) - so she could keep her trusty Voyager crew together.
I'll admit that I haven't read the "A Time to.." series, so I can't say anything in that respect, but what I have read of Admiral Janeway's presence in the novels before her death was great. I don't think she needs to be busted back down to Captain, I was simply saying that it would have been a great opportunity to use her character in her role as an Admiral.
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Old December 31 2011, 11:31 PM   #59
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
Violet.Phoenix wrote: View Post
I don't think it's right for there to be bias against Janeway simply because she was a woman; we should be beyond that kind of prejudice now in our society.
You realize that the ONLY people that ever mention the fact that Janeway was a woman are her fans. Her detractors never even mention her gender. What's worse, her fans are so obsessed with her gender that they think that she should be exempt from any of the dangers that her male colleagues face. In effect they want her protected BECAUSE she is a woman.
I think that that is a matter of opinion. I am a Janeway fan I never really saw a bias until recently, which is why I say that it is ridiculous. I am not trying to protect her because of her gender, I am simply saying that it should not be a dividing line between her and the other male captains of Star Trek.
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Old December 31 2011, 11:41 PM   #60
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Violet.Phoenix wrote: View Post
Gotham Central wrote: View Post
Violet.Phoenix wrote: View Post
I don't think it's right for there to be bias against Janeway simply because she was a woman; we should be beyond that kind of prejudice now in our society.
You realize that the ONLY people that ever mention the fact that Janeway was a woman are her fans. Her detractors never even mention her gender. What's worse, her fans are so obsessed with her gender that they think that she should be exempt from any of the dangers that her male colleagues face. In effect they want her protected BECAUSE she is a woman.
I think that that is a matter of opinion. I am a Janeway fan I never really saw a bias until recently, which is why I say that it is ridiculous. I am not trying to protect her because of her gender, I am simply saying that it should not be a dividing line between her and the other male captains of Star Trek.

What bias have you seen recently? How is Janeway being dead different than what's been done to male characters. The only character to ever be resurrected from the dead is Spock. It was considered miraculous because it was unique. Kirk...dead and buried on Veridian III.
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