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Old December 28 2011, 09:51 PM   #16
Gotham Central
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
Brit wrote: View Post
Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
Why are you people still at it? :Cardie:
We are still at it because that is the way you get what you want. You Don't Give Up, period. I've been doing this three or four years now, I will never give up. It took us ten years to get the original Star Trek back but we did and we will get this.

This is going to happen, you can bet on it.
First of all, Yes, you are entitled to your own opinion. Also, I did not care for Janeway's demise (at least how she died) in the novels from what I've heard.

But for years, trekkies had complained about the "red-shirt" sydrome where they would kill off characters we don't know. They did this to Carey on Voyager to stop killing off one-time characters while entire senior staff survives the trip home.

One of these days, they should be free to kill off a Captain if it is well written. I suppose people would be cheering if they killed off Harry Kim or somehow have Neelix suffer a horrible death.

I remember how the novels used to be written with their own canon when I was a kid. I think some of those novels were better back then. I think one should be free to write a novel where Janeway never got on that Borg cube with permission from Paramount without being consistent with other novels.

Plus there are too many issues out there that needs attention than a fictional character in a novel. I'm willing to bet that most trekkies (most of them are casual or a bit more than that) aren't aware of Janeway's death in the novels.

And I don't think this is the same as brining back the TOS cast for the movies.Those actors are real and a whole bunch of people liked seeing them together. Novels is a different matter. There are too many problems and petitions that require more attention than this. This is not worth 10 years. Civil rights, attention to better medical treatments, or safety issues in buildings and things like that...sure. But not a fictional character in a novels that most people don't know about.

I've personally never understood why some people have such a hard time dealing with the death of FICTIONAL characters. It just seems odd to me. The obsession of the Janeway Jihadis is just strange. The caracter is dead in ONE version of Trek...and one that they constantly remind us is NOT canon. So why the obsession? Just read something else where she is alive. Instead of demanding that she be resurrected, why not simply demand that the publisher release books that take place during the 7 years in the Delta Quadrant. There is simply no need to bring her back when as a fictional character they can just tell more stories about her set prior to her death. Plenty of people are enjoying the post Janeway Voyager stories. Why ruin it for them?

See what I've observed is that there is a core group of people that are so obsessed with this character that they cannot fathom that there are people that are enjoying the story without her. Its worth noting again that Janeway is still a blight on the STO universe and is alive and kicking in lots of fan fiction. For all we know she is annoying people in the 24th Century of the JJverse. So why MUST she be in TrekLit as well. Why can't that be the one place where she is not alive?

If Kate Mulgrew wants to come along and do her own version of the 24th Century with Janeway as reigning empress of the universe, I'm sure the publishers would give her her own line so that it did not intersect with the mainline of novels (just as they've done with Shatner). But I suspect that this would not satisfy the Jihadis either.
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Old December 28 2011, 10:18 PM   #17
The Dominion
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

It doesn't matter if she's brought back in the books, canonically she returned home to an alternate timeline where temporal infractions are tolerated by Starfleet. Or at least that's my theory.
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Old December 28 2011, 11:50 PM   #18
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
I remember how the novels used to be written with their own canon when I was a kid. I think some of those novels were better back then. I think one should be free to write a novel where Janeway never got on that Borg cube with permission from Paramount without being consistent with other novels.
Nothing has really changed from when you were "a kid".

There are still standalone ST novels that don't link up with the continuity of other novels, standalone trilogies and groups of novels ("Crucible" and "Rihannsu"), sagas of novels that bring characters back from canonical deaths (Shatner's set of nine hardcovers) and novels that disagree with each other (eg. in "Genesis Wave" saga, Nurse Ogawa's only child is female and, in the "Titan" series, the child is male).

There's nothing to stop an author pitching a Janeway story in which her death in the other 24th century Relaunch novels is ignored. For example, there is already the novelization of "Star Trek Online: The Needs of the Many", in which Janeway is alive long after Romulus is destroyed.
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Old December 29 2011, 02:07 AM   #19
Finngle Bells
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

^ why the "kid"?
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Old December 29 2011, 03:01 PM   #20
Therin of Andor
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
^ why the "kid"?
I was quoting you; you mentioned you were "a kid". Not my choice of description and no idea how young you were at the time so I was careful to use quotation marks.
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Old December 29 2011, 06:32 PM   #21
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
Brit wrote: View Post
Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
Why are you people still at it? :Cardie:
We are still at it because that is the way you get what you want. You Don't Give Up, period. I've been doing this three or four years now, I will never give up. It took us ten years to get the original Star Trek back but we did and we will get this.

This is going to happen, you can bet on it.
Think about it.

If fans didn't agitate 40 years ago, we wouldn't have a TNG or DS9 or Voy or Ent board.


NEVER give up!

NEVER surrender!

To INFINITY... and Simon Schuster, and BEYOND!!!!!
That's the spirit! That's what I like! Never give up, never surrender.

I'll sign the petition but unfortunately the link seem to be broken now.
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Old December 29 2011, 07:05 PM   #22
Finngle Bells
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

KJbushbaby said the same thing
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Old December 29 2011, 07:39 PM   #23
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the subject, except that online petitions are a worthless way to accomplish anything. That's not to disparage the intent of the people who set this up or have signed it. But no company or organization takes a bunch of online "signatures" seriously. If you want to have an impact, they need to receive actual, personally written e-mails or, better yet, actual physical letters from people. And not form letters. Actual correspondence gets attention. Petitions and form letters do not.
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Old December 29 2011, 11:36 PM   #24
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

There are people who dislike Janeway, and there are those who loved her. Sadly, there are also rude individuals who mock those of us who want to see her returned in the novel-verse books. Those of you who post such derogatory, nasty and snarky comments only make yourselves seem rather sad and unpleasant. You're allowed to have your opinions, as we are allowed to have ours.



Sign the petition and show your support for Admiral Kathryn Janeway!

http://tinyurl.com/savekj
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Old December 30 2011, 12:59 AM   #25
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

No.
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Old December 30 2011, 01:53 AM   #26
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

As I've said before - I didn't particularly like Janeway - character, writing or casting. Kirsten Beyer is doing a great job with the books without her, which are imho much better than the actual series ever was. Janeway may well return in Treklit at some point - I think it is very likely but I rather hope not. That's not really the point.

While I am probably in a minority definitely not wanting her back, there really are quite a lot on here who really don't care either way as long as the books are good. A petition is pretty pointless, and may not be very well supported anyway.

S & S will do what they plan to do...
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Old December 30 2011, 09:50 AM   #27
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
As I've said before - I didn't particularly like Janeway - character, writing or casting. Kirsten Beyer is doing a great job with the books without her, which are imho much better than the actual series ever was. Janeway may well return in Treklit at some point - I think it is very likely but I rather hope not. That's not really the point.

While I am probably in a minority definitely not wanting her back, there really are quite a lot on here who really don't care either way as long as the books are good. A petition is pretty pointless, and may not be very well supported anyway.

S & S will do what they plan to do...
I respectfully disagree and not just because I adore Janeway and she's one of my childhood heroes. Simply put, Janeway is one of the few characters that could not be thrown out to still have Voyager work. Kirsten Beyer is doing a good job w/o Janeway and honestly, the books have continued better than I originally thought they would however, Janeway was the unifying presence for the Voyager crew. No character can replace her presence or dynamic. The books since her demise in some ways read like it's a large away mission and we're waiting for her to magically appear on the next page. There is a feeling of a lost element and that element is Janeway. No Janeway= no Voyager.

I've talked to others who didn't care for Mulgrew's performance. I adore her as well. But all I can say is look as Ms. Bujold's work (the original casted Janeway) and I think you may appreciate Mulgrew a little.
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Old December 30 2011, 09:51 AM   #28
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Lynx wrote: View Post
JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
Brit wrote: View Post

We are still at it because that is the way you get what you want. You Don't Give Up, period. I've been doing this three or four years now, I will never give up. It took us ten years to get the original Star Trek back but we did and we will get this.

This is going to happen, you can bet on it.
Think about it.

If fans didn't agitate 40 years ago, we wouldn't have a TNG or DS9 or Voy or Ent board.


NEVER give up!

NEVER surrender!

To INFINITY... and Simon Schuster, and BEYOND!!!!!
That's the spirit! That's what I like! Never give up, never surrender.

I'll sign the petition but unfortunately the link seem to be broken now.
I concur. Nothing is a waste of time, etc. as long it is something you feel passionate about.
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Old December 30 2011, 10:58 PM   #29
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Killandra wrote: View Post
Simply put, Janeway is one of the few characters that could not be thrown out to still have Voyager work. Kirsten Beyer is doing a good job w/o Janeway and honestly, the books have continued better than I originally thought they would however, Janeway was the unifying presence for the Voyager crew. No character can replace her presence or dynamic. The books since her demise in some ways read like it's a large away mission and we're waiting for her to magically appear on the next page. There is a feeling of a lost element and that element is Janeway.
That's the point.

I lost my mother to cancer a few weeks ago, only 18 months after my father went the same way. My Dad had lingered over five years; my mother went through the whole thing in a few short months. On Christmas Day, we had 16 people at Christmas lunch, all secretly expecting my mother to magically appear, laughing and handing out gifts. It didn't happen. (Although, after her funeral, my brothers and I found three boxed mugs in her pantry, inscribed "All I want for Christmas is my Mum". And Christmas cards, all written out, for everyone she knew.)

I'm almost dreading to read beyond "Full Circle", but Ms Beyer's work has received such acclaim.

No Janeway= no Voyager.
And yet, life must go on for those left behind.

With death comes the anguish that nothing will be the same again. Group dynamics will be permanently altered. Principals leave schools, families lose matriarchs, starships lose captains, countries lose leaders... but the rest of us have to make a new future, not wallow in the past.

Of course, VOY is science fiction. One day, some how, some way, some editor will want to revitalise the VOY books again (but they aren't tired again yet!) and Janeway will have a shock reappearance, or some author will pitch a new Janeway story that Pocket/Gallery and CBS Consumer Products can't resist. Maybe for the next big anniversary of VOY, or maybe not? But let's not rush it. The VOY books are at a high. Let's save the miracle resurrections for when they are needed, not do it now and muddy Ms Beyer's acclaimed current storyline.

But all I can say is look as Ms. Bujold's work (the original casted Janeway) and I think you may appreciate Mulgrew a little.
But the new female captain of the current novel arc (concerning the Voyager fleet's mission back to the Delta Quadrant) is nothing like Ms Bujold's Janeway, nor Ms Mulgrew's Janeway. Nor is she supposed to be.
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Old December 30 2011, 11:08 PM   #30
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Re: Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

No, I'm sure all women are exactly the same.
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