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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old December 26 2011, 06:52 PM   #166
DWF
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Re: Does It Get Better???

exodus wrote: View Post
However....
Voyager was the only ship in that quaderant with a Federation warp signal, so it was easy to track. There was an ep. where Seska mentions this as does Janeway when looking for lost shuttles.
Season 3s "Distant Origin" shows another way to track them.
It's amazing then that the Equinox didn't run into the Borg then. The Borg showed up more often because Voyager was had simple gone though their region of space. Each story should be taken on a story by story basis though and not taken as a whole.
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Old December 27 2011, 02:19 AM   #167
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Re: Does It Get Better???

No spoilers DWF!
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Old December 27 2011, 03:41 AM   #168
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Re: Does It Get Better???

DWF wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
However....
Voyager was the only ship in that quaderant with a Federation warp signal, so it was easy to track. There was an ep. where Seska mentions this as does Janeway when looking for lost shuttles.
Season 3s "Distant Origin" shows another way to track them.
It's amazing then that the Equinox didn't run into the Borg then. The Borg showed up more often because Voyager was had simple gone though their region of space. Each story should be taken on a story by story basis though and not taken as a whole.
Without giving anything away.
Remember what the Equinox was doing?
I assumed what they were doing pushed them well beyond or around Borg space, so they never were detected.
Best guess.
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Old December 27 2011, 04:21 AM   #169
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Just watched another two episodes.

Innocence: The reverse-aging premise is ridiculous, and the child acting is, as usual with child actors, pretty rotten. I do think, though, that Tuvok gave a very good performance. I liked the way he interacted with the children.
3/10

The Thaw: Funny, creepy, and exciting all at once! I loved the way the Doctor and Janeway interacted with the Clown, and the Clown gave a marvelous performance! A very solid episode.
7/10
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Old December 27 2011, 04:28 AM   #170
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Re: Does It Get Better???

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
Just watched another two episodes.

Innocence: The reverse-aging premise is ridiculous, and the child acting is, as usual with child actors, pretty rotten. I do think, though, that Tuvok gave a very good performance. I liked the way he interacted with the children.
3/10

The Thaw: Funny, creepy, and exciting all at once! I loved the way the Doctor and Janeway interacted with the Clown, and the Clown gave a marvelous performance! A very solid episode.
7/10
Agreed on both.
I love Tuvok's line in "Innocence"
Girl Child: "Tuvok, what are your kids like?"
Tuvok: "Well Behaved."
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Old December 27 2011, 04:31 AM   #171
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Re: Does It Get Better???

exodus wrote: View Post
I love Tuvok's line in "Innocence"
Girl Child: "Tuvok, what are your kids like?"
Tuvok: "Well Behaved."
Hahaha! Yes, that was the high point of the episode.
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Old December 27 2011, 04:56 PM   #172
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Re: Does It Get Better???

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
The Thaw: Funny, creepy, and exciting all at once! I loved the way the Doctor and Janeway interacted with the Clown, and the Clown gave a marvelous performance! A very solid episode.
7/10
I've had some time to mull over this episode, and I now think that The Thaw is more deserving of an 8. This episode was just completely and terrifyingly bizarre, but in an amazing way. One thing I forgot to mention that I really loved was the very ending as Fear and the whole world around him faded away into the darkness. It was very eerie and chilling, and the perfect way to conclude this episode.
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Old December 28 2011, 01:25 AM   #173
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I'm glad you upgraded "The Thaw", I love nearly everything about it. It has a real feeling of TOS or early TNG in the story and the way its filmed. It was wacky and genuinely creepy.
As for "Innocence"...that was just filler crap, like they seriously couldn't come up with better story ideas than this?
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Old December 28 2011, 05:13 AM   #174
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Tuvix: The crew of Voyager prove in this episode that they are all amoral cowards. I can't believe that every single one of them would stand by as Tuvix is taken to his execution.
As for my evaluation of the episode, I don't believe that Tuvix became truly interesting until the moral dilemma was introduced two thirds of the way through. With all of that in mind, I believe that Tuvix is an above average episode with a terrific finale.
6/10
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Old December 28 2011, 05:43 AM   #175
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Re: Does It Get Better???

If this had been TOS, and it had been Spock and McCoy fused together, no one would've complained over having them restored.
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Old December 28 2011, 05:46 AM   #176
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Re: Does It Get Better???

As much as Tuvix might be a good guy and a "real person," he was still a transporter accident, and his existence meant the death of two other people. Given the option, I would have stood by as well if it meant the restoration of my original friends.

What was a little disappointing was that we really didn't see how Neelix and Tuvok felt about the situation after they had been restored.
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Old December 28 2011, 08:20 AM   #177
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Anwar wrote: View Post
If this had been TOS, and it had been Spock and McCoy fused together, no one would've complained over having them restored.
I'd certainly like to think I would have. Nice to see that a crew sent out to seek out new life forms is willing to kill a unique one.

How long is Tuvix allowed to exist without a way to restore Tuvok and Neelix being found before his body becomes "rightfully" his? I'm trying to imagine living your life in perpetual fear that you'll get a message from your doctor saying, "Hey, come on down here so we can kill you."

I still think it would have been poetic justice if the restoration attempt had resulted in all 3 of them dying.
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Old December 28 2011, 08:26 AM   #178
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Anwar wrote: View Post
If this had been TOS, and it had been Spock and McCoy fused together, no one would've complained over having them restored.
McCOY: Lexorin? What for?
KIRK: You're suffering from a Vulcan mind meld, Doctor.
McCOY: That green-blooded son of a bitch! It's his revenge for all the arguments he lost.
Forgetful or were you making a joke?
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Old December 28 2011, 04:00 PM   #179
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I think the episode took a natural approach to things. Janeway knew they could debate "Tuvix" and his right to live for years and never come to a conclusion so they just did what she and Kes wanted with morals be damned - get Tuvok and Neelix back because at the heart of it - 2 lives is more than one.
I approved of her decision.
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Old December 28 2011, 04:36 PM   #180
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Tuvix was three poeple.

Tuvok, Neelix and Tuvix.

Janeway killed three people to make two people.

A couple weeks later, Kes dumps Neelix under the thrall of an alien Warlord. Off screen, after the credits (I hear Ethan supposed at a convention once.), she must have confirmed Neelix that the Alien symbiont controlling her, didn't give a shit so well about his feelings as to be more honest about her own waning feelings for Neelix, which she cared too much for him to be so honest as to mention aloud that the site of him was beginning to make her sick.

What if Tuvix occurred after Warlord?

No Kes in Neelix's corner, browbeating Janeway.

Hang on.

Kes must have loved him less after the Tuvix incident, because of the Tuvix incident.

Surely?

Is it because Neelix was less Neelix than he used to be?

NUlix was still too much Tuvix and Tuvok that he was not the same magnificent man that she fell in love with. that this half Neelix they were trying to pass off as the real McCoy did not cut the mustard.

Which could have just been her imagination.

Or...

A months separation led into Kes creating an idealized version of Neelix in her mind, An UBer Neelix (Imagine a hedgehog that was almost supersonic.), who she prayed would return from that Quantum entangled mess and make her toes curl and... An impossibly cutting figure which Neelix could not possibly compete with.

Or...

Neelix liked being Tuvix and resented Kes for murdering him, and that resentment made him treat her differently and it pissed her off to the point that the Warlord expressed the little girls distress for her, and they're broken up.

oR...

kes couldn't forgive Neelix for wanting to be Tuvix and for abandoning her. You know like how idiots blame rape victims for being raped and think of them as damaged or unclean (i'm looking at you "Everyone in India".). Westly clearly said that death doesn't stop true love, it just slows it down a little, and the hedgehog wasn't even dead but he still preferred to snuggle into Tuvoks DNA rather than her warm embrace,

or...

Mingling with Tuvok like that, was in a sense cheating on her. And I don';t mean that Neelix was cheating on Kes. I mean that Tuvok was cheating on T'Pel, and more importantly that Tuvok wasn't cheating on T'Pel with her. She clearly wanted the Vulcan bad but had respect for his nuptials that she didn't tap that, but have you ever been in a threesome and somehow found that you're just playing with your self as the rest of the menage a trois rolls over towards the other side of the bed?

Spurned!

She loved Neelix enough to kill for him, but not enough to let him be happy.

You, know.

"The usual"
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