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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old December 24 2011, 06:17 PM   #1
tafkats
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Racist Vulcans

I get that the Vulcans in Enterprise were suppose to be not quite as enlightened as they claimed, and certainly a less open and accepting people than they later became.

But, in the 24th century, how is Captain Solok's attitude in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" even remotely acceptable? Heck, even today, someone who wrote numerous papers about the inferiority of another race would be marginalized and seen as a joke. But Solok, who almost makes the xenophobic Cardassians look accepting, can do all the things Sisko described from their past and then, as a captain, bait a fellow officer with racist insults ... and it's accepted?

You'd think Starfleet would have rules about that sort of thing.
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Old December 24 2011, 06:48 PM   #2
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Racist Vulcans

You would think, but I'm sure the Vulcans get a pass because people actually believe the line that they're always "oh-so-logical" and never say or do anything for emotional reasons like...dare I say...inferior races like the Cardassians.

This Cardassian is not amused.

But really, what Vulcan that we ever saw on any Trek was ever "open and accepting," except Spock in his later years?
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Old December 24 2011, 06:52 PM   #3
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Re: Racist Vulcans

I suppose it might be a case of "Can't Argue With Elves", as TV Tropes phrases it. That is, the elder elf-like race in the setting is often presented as blatantly convinced of its own superiority, yet when they behave in this manner, rather than the other races starting a bar fight over it, as would happen in real life, everyone just stands there and accepts it. They won't tolerate it from any other race, but you Can't Argue With Elves....
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Old December 24 2011, 07:29 PM   #4
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Re: Racist Vulcans

Was it race that he had a problem with or the fact that other races were in his opinion didn`t control their emotions as Vulcans do? because l thought he just found (as most Vulcans would) that emotion made people a bit weaker when it came to needing to rely on them in stressful situations? And maybe he could`ve phrased that more diplomatically... or he was baiting...
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Old December 24 2011, 08:16 PM   #5
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Re: Racist Vulcans

Vulcans are arrogant, not racist. I'm sure serving on a ship full of ONLY Vulcans would just make things worse.

Frankly, I want to know who allowed a Starfleet ship to have an all-Vulcan crew. What possible purpose could that serve?
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Old December 24 2011, 08:23 PM   #6
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Re: Racist Vulcans

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Vulcans are arrogant, not racist. I'm sure serving on a ship full of ONLY Vulcans would just make things worse.

Frankly, I want to know who allowed a Starfleet ship to have an all-Vulcan crew. What possible purpose could that serve?
Probably the same purpose as a ship with an all human crew, or an all Andorian crew (I don't remember of that ever came up). To make the crew more comfortable by being surrounded by their own kind? That's admittedly a very loose guess, but it would make sense.

Another possibility would be sending a ship crewed a specific race is because certain races cannot handle certain sectors of space for whatever reason, similar to the way the Expanse had a negative effect on Vulcans in ENTERPRISE.
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Old December 24 2011, 10:45 PM   #7
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Re: Racist Vulcans

I never liked it, and I hate it every time they refresh this stupid idea. The Vulcans, with all their history, and their IDIC philosophy, should know better than that. Racism is illogical. Above all, racism is the result of an irrational emotion: fear of the unknown. It makes absolutely no fucking sense that Vulcans are racists.
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Old December 24 2011, 10:53 PM   #8
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Re: Racist Vulcans

Vulcans are arrogant. They think they know everything. Humans tends to think the same thing, but Vulcans are a race of geniuses. So maybe they are superior and they like show it. But I'm not sure if they are racist since they are superior to a lot of species.
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Old December 24 2011, 10:53 PM   #9
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Re: Racist Vulcans

That ship in "Take Me Out to the Halosuite" did not have an all-Vulcan crew. It had an all-Vulcan senior staff.

Still - it must have been a tough ship to serve on for a non-Vulcan.

But I agree with the earlier poster. That Vulcan captaion was not "racist", he was either "chauvanist" or "jingoist".

He believed Vulcans - because of their ability to suppress their emotions and survive on logic alone - would perform all things superior to other humanoids.

Let's not forget the humans (and the Klingon and the Bajoran) on the DS9 Sr. staff all think they are superior to the Ferengis. The only humanoid among the Sr. staff on DS9 that doesn't feel that way and treats the Ferengis as equal is the Trill (Dax).
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Old December 24 2011, 11:38 PM   #10
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Re: Racist Vulcans

BennyRussel wrote: View Post
Let's not forget the humans (and the Klingon and the Bajoran) on the DS9 Sr. staff all think they are superior to the Ferengis. The only humanoid among the Sr. staff on DS9 that doesn't feel that way and treats the Ferengis as equal is the Trill (Dax).
Huh? The staff all treated Nog with respect and Rom too after a while? Or maybe it's a case of Nog and Rom being assimilated Federation values?

Quark once helped someone nearly kill Dax!

I dont see any of the senior staff thinking they're above all Ferengi. Might be one or two examples.
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Old December 24 2011, 11:46 PM   #11
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Re: Racist Vulcans

The Vulcans in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" were not racists. The Vulcan stated his physical superiority in a cold and logical manner, and what angered Sisko the most was the fact that he was right about it. The Vulcan was amused by Sisko's anger and competitiveness and studied him basically.

It's arrogance, but not racism. Racism is based on fear, insecurity and similar emotions. If you state "you are black and I am white", "you sit in a wheelchair and I can walk", "you are blind and I can see", "you are a woman and I am a man", "you weigh 300 pounds and I weigh 100 pounds", "you scored 10 points and I scored 100 points", you are stating facts and nothing else.
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Old December 24 2011, 11:51 PM   #12
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Re: Racist Vulcans

tafkats wrote: View Post
I get that the Vulcans in Enterprise were suppose to be not quite as enlightened as they claimed, and certainly a less open and accepting people than they later became.

But, in the 24th century, how is Captain Solok's attitude in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" even remotely acceptable? Heck, even today, someone who wrote numerous papers about the inferiority of another race would be marginalized and seen as a joke. But Solok, who almost makes the xenophobic Cardassians look accepting, can do all the things Sisko described from their past and then, as a captain, bait a fellow officer with racist insults ... and it's accepted?

You'd think Starfleet would have rules about that sort of thing.
With ya. I'm glad DS9 didn't include much: Vulcans and Borg.

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Old December 24 2011, 11:56 PM   #13
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Re: Racist Vulcans

tafkats wrote: View Post
But, in the 24th century, how is Captain Solok's attitude in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" even remotely acceptable? Heck, even today, someone who wrote numerous papers about the inferiority of another race would be marginalized and seen as a joke. But Solok, who almost makes the xenophobic Cardassians look accepting, can do all the things Sisko described from their past and then, as a captain, bait a fellow officer with racist insults ... and it's accepted?
That's because there is no such thing as different human races, and sexes aren't factually inferior.

How many papers are out there about the differences (and perhaps inferiority) of monkeys compared to humans? Even if monkeys could talk and solve trigonomic equations, there would be hundreds or thousands of scientific articles about the differences to humans.



Usually, a cold logical analysis evokes anger. Just try discussing with Christopher Bennett while having a different opinion than he has. He will academically beat you up and you will get so angry that he is right.
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Old December 25 2011, 03:30 AM   #14
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Racist Vulcans

I'm just amazed that so few Vulcans have come to the realization that being a dick is not logical. You tend to get fewer doors slammed in your face by emotional beings--who are not going to get rid of their emotions--when you learn to use social graces and have the tact not to have to win every battle or steamroll everyone all the time.
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Old December 25 2011, 04:18 AM   #15
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Re: Racist Vulcans

I didn't like how they betrayed the Vulcans in "Take me Out to the Holosuite" to be honest. I would like to think someone like Tuvok was a much more common example of a Vulcan. I did like that we got to see Vulcans as Maquis though.
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