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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old December 24 2011, 09:59 AM   #256
ClayinCA
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Charlton Heston was on Earth the whole time. Also, Norman's really his mother.

And they find Spock.
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Old December 24 2011, 10:34 AM   #257
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Where was the crew headed in "Destination: Moon"?

Why can't the Wicked Witch of the West take a bath?
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Old December 24 2011, 12:05 PM   #258
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Just noticed the German cover. Am I alone in preferring the German cover? In the original, Seven looks sad and grief-stricken. The German one is dynamic and has Seven fearful/shocked about what is coming. It is like the original is set after the book and the German one before, making the latter more appealing on a book shelf. Only change I would have made, show the cube eating Pluto. Ooops, was that a spoiler!?!
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Before_Dishonor
Matthias, I also thought the German cover was better...but being the book largely dealt with Janeway's fate, I find it a little upsetting that she doesn't have presence on the cover at all.
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Old December 24 2011, 12:18 PM   #259
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
MattWallace, please read Kristen's books. The 3 out so far have been excellent. Even if you don't like that she is gone, Janeway has left an amazing legacy. As a Voyager fan, you won't be disappointed. I think you will find that they are as good if not better than the best Voyager tv episodes.

Reading them will hopefully give you greater respect for the franshise. You may also be pleased to know the editor who choose to kill Janeway is no longer an editor there so perhaps you won't have to be so mad and/or disappointed knowing the person most responsible for the situation has moved on in her career.
I admit, the books are good and I do like some of the new characters, however...no one can or will ever be able to replace Janeway, period. I am hoping her return is somewhere in the future. I won't be holding my breath, but I admit I only read the books after learning about her death because my curiosity got the best of me.

When I first learned about her death, I boycotted Before Dishonor and any book that fell after it. My fiance hasn't given in like I have and simply refuses to buy another Trek book period until Janeway returns. I know many who are doing the same. But for those of you who can work up the urge to read them, the books are good, but there is a sense of loss on the Janeway fan's part. We keep foolishly hoping to turn the page and see her pop up even though we know it's not going to happen.

I've talked about the killing of female characters before elsewhere. I agree more men die in Trek and before Janeway was Sisko in Trek cannon so some fans may get the inclination the franchise has something against minority leaders. I don't believe that's the case personally, but I could just see where some fans may feel that way.
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Old December 24 2011, 01:05 PM   #260
Therin of Andor
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Killandra wrote: View Post
but being the book largely dealt with Janeway's fate, I find it a little upsetting that she doesn't have presence on the cover at all.
But that might have suggested the surprise twist that claimed her life. A Borg story, and a concerned looking Seven, misleads us that this novel might be Seven's final fate.
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Old December 24 2011, 03:45 PM   #261
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Killandra wrote: View Post
but being the book largely dealt with Janeway's fate, I find it a little upsetting that she doesn't have presence on the cover at all.
But that might have suggested the surprise twist that claimed her life. A Borg story, and a concerned looking Seven, misleads us that this novel might be Seven's final fate.
It's simpler than that. Covers are designed to sell books. Seven was the most popular character in Voyager. Therefore putting Seven on the cover sells more books. It's the same reason they put Worf on the cover of The Struggle Within even though he's not one of the central characters. And the same reason they put Spock on the cover of Cast No Shadow even though he only has a cameo role. The primary consideration isn't how well the cover reflects the story, but how effective it is at attracting the customer's interest.
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Old December 24 2011, 04:32 PM   #262
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

^That being the case, I recommend that all Trek books going forward feature a scantily-clad woman on the cover.

Personally I'd prefer a scantily-clad man, but I realize I'm probably in the minority of readers.
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Old December 24 2011, 05:15 PM   #263
MatthiasRussell
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

The book was also more of a Seven story than a Janeway story. Janeway was central to the plot but she was more of the antagonist and Seven the protagonist. It seems more appropriate to have the hero as opposed to the villain on the cover.

Perhaps a picture of an assimilated Janeway taken from a tv show screenshot would have piqued interest, but I agree Jeri Ryan's face sells better. That is why she added to the cast in the first place. . . . well, not JUST her face.
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Old December 24 2011, 05:52 PM   #264
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

I understand how many fans feel about Janeway's "death" in this book. I think it seemed very needless. It's almost as if the author wanted to write a story that had what he thought was a real punch to it, but, in the process, he deprived subsequent authors of Janeway's character unless they choose to write her reappearance back in. I wouldn't be surprised if someone does do that eventually.

I actually don't think this should have been marketed as part of the TNG post-Nemesis series of novels. I'm not sure what it was considered when it first came out, but, when I started to get back into the novels, it was considered in the TNG lineup. Although it takes place in the TNG environment, and it follows the previous novel's action regarding Picard and the Borg, its focus on Janeway and Seven really puts the TNG angle off to the side. It could very easily have taken place somewhere else, as much of the TNG action (the mutiny, etc.) is very underintegrated in the novel.
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Old December 24 2011, 06:03 PM   #265
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Dr. Crusher wrote: View Post
I understand how many fans feel about Janeway's "death" in this book. I think it seemed very needless. It's almost as if the author wanted to write a story that had what he thought was a real punch to it, but, in the process, he deprived subsequent authors of Janeway's character unless they choose to write her reappearance back in.
Except it wasn't the author's idea, it was the editor's.

And it doesn't necessarily deprive other authors of the opportunity to write Janeway, because they could potentially write books set earlier in the timeline, or in separate continuities.

Plus, as I've pointed out before, Janeway may be dead in Kirsten Beyer's VGR novels, but she's far from absent. Her character is very influential in those books.
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Old December 24 2011, 07:06 PM   #266
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

How many times are people going to say killing Janeway was PD's idea?

And Janeway's state of being is in flux as she is dead to current events but exists with the Q. Who knows what is to become of her?
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Old December 24 2011, 09:34 PM   #267
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

DonIago wrote: View Post
^That being the case, I recommend that all Trek books going forward feature a scantily-clad woman on the cover.
Actually, that's probably why Boris Vallejo was the resident cover artist for so many early Pocket Star Trek novels. His reputation for drawing scantily-clad space bimbos.
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Old December 24 2011, 09:41 PM   #268
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Dr. Crusher wrote: View Post
I actually don't think this should have been marketed as part of the TNG post-Nemesis series of novels.
At the time it was written, though, VOY books were dead in the water. The show itself was dead, the previous VOY Relaunch author had dropped out of the ST sphere, her last VOY Relaunch duology sold okay but got many lacklustre reviews - and "Nemesis" had placed the promoted Admiral Janeway as a supporting player in the current TNG storyline, which became an ongoing situation throughout the "A Time..." novel maxi-series.

Had it not been for Janeway's death, the last VOY novel story could have still been "Spirit Walk".
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Old December 24 2011, 10:00 PM   #269
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
At the time it was written, though, VOY books were dead in the water. The show itself was dead, the previous VOY Relaunch author had dropped out of the ST sphere, her last VOY Relaunch duology sold okay but got many lacklustre reviews - and "Nemesis" had placed the promoted Admiral Janeway as a supporting player in the current TNG storyline, which became an ongoing situation throughout the "A Time..." novel maxi-series.

Had it not been for Janeway's death, the last VOY novel story could have still been "Spirit Walk".
Sorry, but you're completely off the mark here. There was never any sales reason for the 4-year gap between Spirit Walk and Full Circle, since despite the reviews, Spirit Walk was a strong seller. The reasons for the delay were entirely creative, due to the change in author and editor. Kirsten and Marco were already working on revitalizing the VGR relaunch at the time Before Dishonor was written; they just needed a while to work out the new direction, and then had to delay further when BD and Destiny required them to amend their plans.

So it's completely wrong to say that BD "brought back" the VGR relaunch. It was always going to continue, and it would've actually continued sooner if not for BD (and Destiny).
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Old December 24 2011, 10:04 PM   #270
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Christopher wrote: View Post
since despite the reviews, Spirit Walk was a strong seller.
As I said above.

So it's completely wrong to say that BD "brought back" the VGR relaunch. It was always going to continue, and it would've actually continued sooner if not for BD (and Destiny).
Okay, but it might have been a hard sell. And did I say "brought back"? Not my quote.
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