If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

[Nerys Myk]

trek_futurist wrote:

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These things can be had in numerous ways, you can go to a general movie forum for this, a general music forum for this, a general entertainment forum for this. Why star trek?

Because I enjoy Star Trek and am entertained by it. I also enjoy talking to other fans about it.

[BillJ]

trek_futurist wrote:

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And how is that good for the franchise, other than financial gain? What is the meaningful correlative that makes 'the franchise' important to the masses?

I'm not exactly sure what your looking for here? Every corporate entity that has funded the production of Star Trek has done so to make money. If Star Trek isn't financially viable, it will no longer be produced. In order to be financially viable it has to reach for audiences outside its traditional fan base.

[archeryguy1701]

No one has said that there aren't folks out there that hated the new movie. There are plenty of them. But there's plenty of folks who loved it too, including people who liked Star Trek before 2009 (I guess the correct term for them would be ex-Trekkies, since they gave up the right to be fans after falling for that disaster of a movie). But you're acting like the opinions of those who didn't like the movie supercede the opinions of those who did like it. It's not good enough for you that you didn't like it and others did- the whole world needs to know why the folks who did like it are wrong!

Now... I'm not going to go through your last attempt at a response to me point-by-point because you've filled it with a bunch of unsupportable crap that's impossible to prove, so I'm just going to respond with this:

You say that this is all about determining what is or isn't "Real Trek". Who are you to say this isn't "Real Trek"? In fact, I would go so far to say that by getting up on the big screen and by getting support from previous Star Trek related folks, you've been overruled. The important people (the ones involved with Trek, currently and previously) seem to have decided that Trek 09 is Real Trek. There is no point in discussing whether or not this is Real Trek because that's been decided for you, whether you like it or not. I guess the only real remaining point of discussion now is how far the fandom has fallen since 2009.

And you keep claiming that Star Trek was never about the money.... don't kid yourself. These folks (old and new) aren't doing this stuff for the betterment of humanity. They're doing it to make a dime. There are plenty of movies or shows that give off a good message once in a while, but that wasn't why they were made. Do you really think Rodenberry would have tried to start Trek back up after it was canceled for the first time if it didn't get popular in syndication? It was never about, "I must get the message out to the people!!".

[BillJ]

trek_futurist wrote:

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If this is your reasoning, why not watch anything else that is generally considered 'entertaining'? Why star trek? I don't get it. Especially if its 'insular' fan base annoys most of you.

I watch many different things and also have interest outside of TV. I doubt anyone here is solely dependent on Trek for his/her entertainment.

[RoJoHen]

trek_futurist wrote:

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If this is your reasoning, why not watch anything else that is generally considered 'entertaining'? Why star trek? I don't get it. Especially if its 'insular' fan base annoys most of you.

I don't watch Star Trek because the masses tell me it's entertaining. I watch Star Trek because I find it entertaining. Why do YOU watch Star Trek?

TV and movies are meant to entertain. Entertainment is entirely subjective. Different people are entertained by different things. If a TV show also happens to teach morals or life lessons, great, but that's not the reason I watch them.

Star Trek is just a TV show. You seem intent on elevating into something more. Just because you get more out of it doesn't make it anything other than a TV show.

[trek_futurist]

RoJoHen wrote:

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Because we like Star Trek. What is so complicated about this?

It's complicated because there is an apparent delineation between the 'insular' fans and those of us who simply 'like' it with no apparent explanation.

There is no such delineation between people who watch the majority of sitcoms. Obviously in order for such a delineation to subsist the medium must be presenting something to forge the separation between you and I.

Not as simple as you seem to be painting it.

[trek_futurist]

RoJoHen wrote:

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I don't watch Star Trek because the masses tell me it's entertaining. I watch Star Trek because I find it entertaining. Why do YOU watch Star Trek?

TV and movies are meant to entertain. Entertainment is entirely subjective. Different people are entertained by different things. If a TV show also happens to teach morals or life lessons, great, but that's not the reason I watch them.

Star Trek is just a TV show. You seem intent on elevating into something more. Just because you get more out of it doesn't make it anything other than a TV show.

If your view of it is this simplistic, what are you here to discuss? Anything?

[archeryguy1701]

trek_futurist wrote:

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It's complicated because there is an apparent delineation between the 'insular' fans and those of who who simple 'like' it with no apparent explanation.

There is no such delineation between people who watch the majority of sitcoms. Obviously in order for such a delineation to subsist the medium must be presenting something to forge the separation between you and I.

Not as simple as you seem to be painting it.

Seriously? There has to be a reason?

Why are you so hellbent on defining who should or shouldn't be a fan? Do you not want the unclean, dumber masses enjoying your TV show?

It's a TV show. It's there for entertainment. And as luck would have it, it entertains many of us here. Stop overthinking this, cupcake.

[trek_futurist]

BillJ wrote:

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I watch many different things and also have interest outside of TV. I doubt anyone here is solely dependent on Trek for his/her entertainment.

Then again, what are you here to discuss? I keep missing the point of that.

[RoJoHen]

trek_futurist wrote:

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It's complicated because there is an apparent delineation between the 'insular' fans and those of who who simple 'like' it with no apparent explanation.

Okay...

I like Star Trek because I enjoy the actors and the characters. I enjoy the stories. I enjoy the space battles. I enjoy the humor. I enjoy a lot of things about Star Trek. I've been watching Star Trek since I was a little kid. I also like that it explores the human condition and attempts to show the hope of the future. I like all of those things.

[BillJ]

RoJoHen wrote:

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Okay...

I like Star Trek because I enjoy the actors and the characters. I enjoy the stories. I enjoy the space battles. I enjoy the humor. I enjoy a lot of things about Star Trek. I've been watching Star Trek since I was a little kid. I also like that it explores the human condition and attempts to show the hope of the future. I like all of those things.

I'm shallow, I'm in it for the babes in miniskirts. Just like GR!

[trek_futurist]

snowman1701 wrote:

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Seriously? There has to be a reason?

Why are you so hellbent on defining who should or shouldn't be a fan? Do you not want the unclean, dumber masses enjoying your TV show?

It's a TV show. It's there for entertainment. And as luck would have it, it entertains many of us here. Stop overthinking this, cupcake.

But none of this explains why you are putting so much effort into explaining that it is simple entertainment and nothing of value beyond this. In fact, your efforts belie your claims.

[RoJoHen]

BillJ wrote:

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I'm shallow, I'm in it for the babes in miniskirts. Just like GR!

Those are good too.

[trek_futurist]

RoJoHen wrote:

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Okay...

I like Star Trek because I enjoy the actors and the characters. I enjoy the stories. I enjoy the space battles. I enjoy the humor. I enjoy a lot of things about Star Trek. I've been watching Star Trek since I was a little kid. I also like that it explores the human condition and attempts to show the hope of the future. I like all of those things.

Okay

[RoJoHen]

trek_futurist wrote:

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But none of this explains why you are putting so much effort into explaining that it is simple entertainment and nothing of value beyond this. In fact, your efforts belie your claims.

Nobody has said that is has no value beyond entertainment. You're putting words in people's mouths again.

It's a TV show. It's main purpose is to provide entertainment and make money. But it can also explore science and morality and the human condition. You do get that it's possible to have both, right?