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Old December 23 2011, 04:36 AM   #136
TheGodBen
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Re: Does It Get Better???

stj wrote: View Post
As to the Alliances episode, Voyager most certainly did do something. It may be too subtle a point to grasp but arranging a diplomatic summit is most certainly doing something.
You'd have a point if Janeway's speech had said "We should never do anything, doing things is dangerous", but if Janeway's speech had said that I would have gone off on an entirely different rant. No, Janeway's speech said this:

JANEWAY: There's just one more thing I want to say. I hope there's a lesson for all of us in this. Although some of the species we've encountered here have been peaceful, others seem governed only by their own self-interests. This appears to be a region of space that doesn't have many rules. But I believe we can learn something from the events that have unfolded. In a part of space where there are few rules, it's more important than ever that we hold fast to our own. In a region where shifting allegiances are commonplace we have to have something stable to rely on. And we do. The principles and ideals of the Federation. As far as I'm concerned, those are the best allies we could have.
Now forgive me if this sounds stupid, but all those times I saw the Enterprise hosting peace conferences kinda gave me the impression that promoting peace was in line with the ideals and principles of the Federation.

Trying to force anger against Janeway by falsifying the facts of the story is, well, perhaps it would be politer not to say outright.
The only things I force are bad jokes and self-confidence, my anger grows naturally from my bitter nature.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to spread lies about other TV shows that I find mildly disappointing, because that's what I do apparently.
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Old December 23 2011, 04:53 AM   #137
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I think Wesley's decision stank of self-righteousness. He got one friend expelled from Starfleet and made life for himself and the other two extremely difficult and tarnished their careers all so he could say he kept his precious principles.
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Old December 23 2011, 05:10 AM   #138
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I just watched a couple more Voyager episodes.

Dreadnought: Fairly predictable. It was obvious from the beginning that they would fine a way to deactivate the missile. Nevertheless, it was a fine episode. I liked seeing Torres deal with her past mistakes, and the actor who portrayed her gave another terrific performance. I don't have any major complaints (other than it being predictable), but at the same time this wasn't a very profound episode.
5/10

Death Wish: A very interesting moral dilemma and the return of Q, one of my favorite TNG guest stars, made for a very good episode. I didn't care for the ending, though. I felt that 2nd Q died too quickly, and emotionally I didn't have enough time to respond to it. Nevertheless, a very fine Voyager offering.
7/10
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Old December 23 2011, 05:17 AM   #139
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Re: Does It Get Better???

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
I think Wesley's decision stank of self-righteousness. He got one friend expelled from Starfleet and made life for himself and the other two extremely difficult and tarnished their careers all so he could say he kept his precious principles.
I don't see how it's self-righteous to own up to your mistakes, especially mistakes that got one of your friends killed. To say "I'll lie about what happened to my one friend to cover my other lying friends' asses," seems a bit hypocritical and certainly not very friendly to the dead one.

I believe the word you were looking for is "mature", not "self-righteous."

That said, if you're willing to throw one of your friends' good names under the bus to save others...well, remind me not to be friends with you if there are any buses around.
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Old December 23 2011, 05:33 AM   #140
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Yes, I would - if its for the greater good which in this case it was, to protect the interests of the remaining 4 live friends.

RE: Death Wish, I despise Q so I rarely rewatch Q episodes
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Old December 23 2011, 05:35 AM   #141
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Re: Does It Get Better???

it's a question of timing.

Wesley would have been a man with big balls if he stood up and said he did bad before Picard figured it out. Waiting after the trap had been spring and his balls were nailed is hardly the act of bravery, more so than consolation because there wasn't a credible lie from that point which they could tell to extract themselves from that quagmire.

UM.

Protecting 4 dirtbag, lying, murderers is most certainly the smaller good YWF, compared tot he rise and fall of empires, even protecting the entire crew of Voyager at the expense of the rise and fall of empires is a small selfish petty good.
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Old December 23 2011, 05:39 AM   #142
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Ronald D Moore originially wanted Wesley to stand by his friends (when the script was slightly different) but Piller wouldn't allow it. Piller did get TNG in shape but his outlooks was so limited sometimes.
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Old December 23 2011, 07:58 AM   #143
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Re: Does It Get Better???

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Yes, I would - if its for the greater good which in this case it was, to protect the interests of the remaining 4 live friends.

RE: Death Wish, I despise Q so I rarely rewatch Q episodes
How is it in the greater good to allow 4 people who are clearly willing to lie (and who knows what else...these things are a slippery slope) to save their own skins into Starfleet? It's not as though they were somehow preserving peace by spitting on their friend's memory.

Sounds like the makings of a fine crew for Equinox.
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Old December 23 2011, 09:38 PM   #144
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Just because his friends have some sense of self-preservation that means they're bad people? Maybe it would be different if the friend was still alive and going to prison and they were lying to save their own skins. But he wasn't, he was dead!
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Old December 23 2011, 11:01 PM   #145
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Well, I don't know...the crew of Equinox acted out of a sense of self-preservation. Were they bad people?

It should be noted that their friend was dead -because of them-. Frankly if I was the dead friend, I likely would have preferred to have been imprisoned.
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Old December 24 2011, 02:13 AM   #146
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Just watched another two episodes.

Lifesigns: This episode developed the Doctor's love life, showed us a different side of the Vidians, and it set up Tom Paris' leaving Voyager in the next episode. All in all this was a fine episode, although it did drag at times.
5/10

Investigations: The arc with the traitor Jonas finally comes to and end, and in a really big and epic way. I love all the buildup to the end of this episode; Neelix starting his TV show, Tom Paris leaving and being captured by the Kazon, Neelix hunting for the traitor, Neelix discovering that Tom Paris' departure was all a setup for the spy, and so forth. All in all, a very fun and exciting episode and a perfect conclusion to the Jonas arc (pun intended ).
8/10: This is the first episode to get an 8 from me, making it the second best episode of Voyager so far, behind Alliances which I gave a 9.
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Old December 24 2011, 03:07 AM   #147
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Re: Does It Get Better???

DonIago wrote: View Post
You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
I think Wesley's decision stank of self-righteousness. He got one friend expelled from Starfleet and made life for himself and the other two extremely difficult and tarnished their careers all so he could say he kept his precious principles.
I don't see how it's self-righteous to own up to your mistakes, especially mistakes that got one of your friends killed. To say "I'll lie about what happened to my one friend to cover my other lying friends' asses," seems a bit hypocritical and certainly not very friendly to the dead one.

I believe the word you were looking for is "mature", not "self-righteous."

That said, if you're willing to throw one of your friends' good names under the bus to save others...well, remind me not to be friends with you if there are any buses around.
True that!
I would really worry about someone that can't see their friends are criminals and supports their life choices. Talk about growing up Gotti?
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Old December 24 2011, 04:20 AM   #148
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Lifesigns:
This is where the doctor falls in love. I don't think he could get out of it-although he did try. Doing a final bonding ritual in a 57 Chevy?

Investigations:
A different ep. that offers character examinations as well as fast paced adventure. Neelix really shows his stuff and ends the show by earning for himself a golden plaque award.
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Old December 24 2011, 05:50 AM   #149
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I've been rewatching the show myself. I'm in the middle of Season 5. All I have to say is, "Ugh, Naomi Wildman."
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Old December 24 2011, 06:10 AM   #150
You_Will_Fail
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Re: Does It Get Better???

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
Just watched another two episodes.

Lifesigns: This episode developed the Doctor's love life, showed us a different side of the Vidians, and it set up Tom Paris' leaving Voyager in the next episode. All in all this was a fine episode, although it did drag at times.
5/10
I thought it was one of the finest romantic episodes Trek has ever done. Denara Pel had so much depth and seeing the doctor develop feelings was different from anything we'd seen before. I don't see how they could have done it any better, 5/10 seems so harsh for an episode was pretty much the best it could be.

8/10: This is the first episode to get an 8 from me, making it the second best episode of Voyager so far, behind Alliances which I gave a 9.
You sure do seem to be a fan of the Kazons/arcs...don't get too attached
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