If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

[Chemahkuu]

Aldo wrote:

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I got the feeling he expected more people...or at least one person, to agree with his reasoning.

Then he's an ever bigger idiot than he appeared.

[ArcherFanForever]

Now, now.... no one wants to end up on Santa's naughty list do they? Or maybe they do!

I liked both Nemesis and Strek Trek 2009, each for their individual qualities on trek story telling.

[horatio83]

Chemahkuu wrote:

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Then he's an ever bigger idiot than he appeared.

Actually he appeared to be far more intelligent than you do.

[CaptainMatt]

Perhaps we should all get back on topic and drop this line of discussion for the forum's sake. I for one do not want to be on anyone's naughty list.


Nemesis is an ok film and I felt it had some genuine emotion, espeically with the sense of jeapordy in the climax, but I like the 2009 feature better because it featured my favorite not-so alien character, Mr. Spock. So maybe I am biased in what I like, I don't know.

[Stoek]

CaptainMatt wrote:

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Clearly, the quote above is from STIII when Kirk fights Klingon Commander Kruge to the death on the Genesis Planet while everything lights up in flames around them. Kirk says it in the final stage of the fight before sending Kruge into the abyss.

Yep. While Kirk is certainly shown to be willing to extend mercy to an enemy he's not willing to do so at the cost of his own life when that enemy refuses said mercy.

On an amusing personal note, "Kirk on a volcano boot stompin' a Klingon" has long been a shorthand between my wife and I when we are indicating that we are totally sick of someone's shit but might be overheard.

[trek_futurist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsI7Mhu1G94

[RoJoHen]

trek_futurist wrote:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsI7Mhu1G94

And?

Nobody is saying that ST09 is a perfect movie, and nobody is saying you have to like it. A lot of people don't like it. But you know what? Even more people disliked Nemesis.

[Balrog]

Are we supposed to be influenced by your link of two idiots, one microphone, and an Internet connection? They hated ST09. So what? You hate ST09. Good for you. Have at it.

I don't. Deal with it.

[Dukhat]

trek_futurist wrote:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsI7Mhu1G94

Thank you for linking to a three year old Youtube video about a review from some internet nerds whose personal opinions are no more credible than yours are.

[archeryguy1701]

I didn't watch the video, but I have one important question about it- did they provide an accurate or credible definition for what is or isn't a Star Trek fan?

[RoJoHen]

snowman1701 wrote:

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I didn't watch the video, but I have one important question about it- did they provide an accurate or credible definition for what is or isn't a Star Trek fan?

No. It basically boiled down to, "OMG LENS FLARE! "

[trek_futurist]

They outline the reason the movie sucked, reasons that most of you are conveniently ignoring.

Here are a couple.

1-(as I pointed out already) The main characters are completely OUT of character.

2-The human race is suppose to have gotten over its insipid ways by then, and the kirk character is suppose to be an enlightened individual, not a petty 30 year old idiot with a chip on his shoulder and a lust for power (don't even tell me the TOS was not enlightened compared to this idiot we saw in this film).

3-The film was nothing but shallow bombast, literally. The so called 'plot' WAS the filler. And those of you who have the arrogance to compare this to the wrath of khan are simply delusional. TWOK was an amazing movie, this does not compare on any level to that master piece.

4-There is no one to like here. Where is kirk again? All I see is some idiot with an arrogant disposition walking around, acting no better than people of today. That might fit in with some genre films, but not star trek. Star trek was never about humans being exactly the same as they are now, it was about them being BETTER than they are now so we would have something to inspire us to the future.

5-The completely DUMB writing that spurts out everywhere all over this movie. To say the film 'is not perfect' is a complete understatement. The characters motivations make absolutely no god damned sense at all. They are like little kids trying to fight their way out of a cardboard box and shredding the box and every bit of logic with it into pieces. The idiocy of nero's actions, the idiocy of spocks actions, the complete overall idiocy of imposter kirk, you have to be of a very short attention span to not suspend disbelief in the face of this pure idiocy. And once again, getting promoted from cadet to captain during a training mission is COMPLETELY STUPID AND SHOULD RUIN THE PREMISE OF THE ENTIRE MOVIE TO ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN!

At least Nemesis made some degree of sense from an x-y-z perspective. At least the characters motivations for doing things weren't 'uh just cause i uh felt like it duh'.

Star trek 2009 is NOT a star trek movie, it is a movie for people who hate star trek, to insult the real essence of star trek with. It is pure garbage for the masses and people with short attention spans who will just as easily like transformers and twilight.

[King Daniel Into Darkness]

I found the characters likable, familiar (although modernized) and the film itself true to Trek's ideals. There was more racial diversity in this film than any prior Star Trek. A UNITED Earth, going out into space.

Sorry it didn't work for you.

[horatio83]

trek_futurist wrote:

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They outline the reason the movie sucked, reasons that most of you are conveniently ignoring.

Here are a couple.

1-(as I pointed out already) The main characters are completely OUT of character.

2-The human race is suppose to have gotten over its insipid ways by then, and the kirk character is suppose to be an enlightened individual, not a petty 30 year old idiot with a chip on his shoulder and a lust for power (don't even tell me the TOS was not enlightened compared to this idiot we saw in this film).

3-The film was nothing but shallow bombast, literally. The so called 'plot' WAS the filler. And those of you who have the arrogance to compare this to the wrath of khan are simply delusional. TWOK was an amazing movie, this does not compare on any level to that master piece.

4-There is no one to like here. Where is kirk again? All I see is some idiot with an arrogant disposition walking around, acting no better than people of today. That might fit in with some genre films, but not star trek. Star trek was never about humans being exactly the same as they are now, it was about them being BETTER than they are now so we would have something to inspire us to the future.

5-The completely DUMB writing that spurts out everywhere all over this movie. To say the film 'is not perfect' is a complete understatement. The characters motivations make absolutely no god damned sense at all. They are like little kids trying to fight their way out of a cardboard box and shredding the box and every bit of logic with it into pieces. The idiocy of nero's actions, the idiocy of spocks actions, the complete overall idiocy of imposter kirk, you have to be of a very short attention span to not suspend disbelief in the face of this pure idiocy. And once again, getting promoted from cadet to captain during a training mission is COMPLETELY STUPID AND SHOULD RUIN THE PREMISE OF THE ENTIRE MOVIE TO ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN!

At least Nemesis made some degree of sense from an x-y-z perspective. At least the characters motivations for doing things weren't 'uh just cause i uh felt like it duh'.

Star trek 2009 is NOT a star trek movie, it is a movie for people who hate star trek, to insult the real essence of star trek with. It is pure garbage for the masses and people with short attention spans who will just as easily like transformers and twilight.

Shinzon's motivations are as vague as Nero's. Of course you can explain them, Shinzon should hates the Romulans but he also hates his humanness because this was the case for his mistreatment so he tries to blow up Earth. Nero hates the guy who tried to save his planet ... because he failed? Because he is a Vulcan?

While I agree that the movie had its dumb moments and while I prefer Trek that gets the right mixture between interesting themes and a thrilling plot (TWOK, TUC and FC being the best examples) I think you largely overstate the problems of ST09.
Sure, it might have been more interesting if Kirk had more in common with the few notes about his background we learnt during the first season of TOS but once you accept the premise of him being a maverick he is a fine character in ST09. Spock was a more problematic character as he threw Kirk off the ship and basically said that revenge is good.

One can and should criticize ST09 but not in a biased, overblown fashion. Despite its questionable script and the lack of what I would call the Trek spirit it is undeniably the Trek movie with best effects and overall prduction, not to mention that all the actors played very well.
Take it as what it is, a decent, shallow summer blockbuster that captures not the intelligence but the fun of TOS.

[The Dominion]

sonak wrote:

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what do you mean by another painful re-concluding of TNG? When was there an attempted conclusion of TNG before?

No, I just meant they had already ended the show with All Good Things the same year which was a great end, then they release Generations which is another "conclusion" to the series but worse.

They would have been much better off leaving us with All Good Things and ST VI as the last big adventures of Kirk and Picard, instead of puking all over both of them simultaneously with Generations.

Edit: *Facepalm* I thought I was talking Generations here today. But to my point, Generations was the first "re-concluding" of TNG I was referring to. Both it and Nemesis tried to be a big farewell movie for TNG (and in the case of Generations, TOS as well) and both were terrible, especially when compared to All Good Things.