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Old December 18 2011, 01:36 AM   #2701
the G-man
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Broccoli wrote: View Post
Personally, Power Girl is a dumb character. There, I said it. She is completely redundant and efforts to make her different from Supergirl are forgettable and just muddles up an already confusing character. I only think the reason they kept her around was so horny writers/artists could draw her boobs and tell boob jokes.
I always thought DC, at least post-Crisis, spent waaay too much time trying to "explain" where she came from when it would have been much, much, easier just to say that Zor El had two daughters.
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Old December 18 2011, 02:16 AM   #2702
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Broccoli wrote: View Post
^ The only Flash there is in the New 52 is Barry Allen. Wally West and Jay Garrick are currently MIA (although, it is very unlikely Jay ever existed this time around considering superheroes are "new").

Unless you count Bart Allen, but he was never Flash in the New 52.

Personally, Power Girl is a dumb character. There, I said it. She is completely redundant and efforts to make her different from Supergirl are forgettable and just muddles up an already confusing character. I only think the reason they kept her around was so horny writers/artists could draw her boobs and tell boob jokes.
I've always found Power Girl to be much more interesting than Supergirl. From the beginning she had a distinct personality and point of view that informed her interactions with other characters. Supergirl was always rather vanilla, with no personality to speak of. Given a choice I'd pick PG over SG in a heartbeat.
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Old December 18 2011, 05:08 AM   #2703
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Maybe we will see PG actually get her powers at some point.This would hopefully seperate her from the whole Superman family and have her be distinct unto herself. I agree with Santa Kang that PG has usually been much more interesting than SG.
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Old December 18 2011, 06:30 AM   #2704
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

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Her origin/s are convoluted but I've always liked Karen...aside from her looks. I was really enjoying her ongoing book before the New 52. *Shrugs*
Well, it's Byrne's fault her story is a mess. At the end of COIE, she just assumed the same role on New Earth as she had on Earth II. She was supposed to have been Clark's cousin.

And despite what might have been said previously, I don't think it is going to be too long before she gets a new origin and becomes Power Girl again.
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Old December 18 2011, 07:01 AM   #2705
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

the G-man wrote: View Post
Broccoli wrote: View Post
Personally, Power Girl is a dumb character. There, I said it. She is completely redundant and efforts to make her different from Supergirl are forgettable and just muddles up an already confusing character. I only think the reason they kept her around was so horny writers/artists could draw her boobs and tell boob jokes.
I always thought DC, at least post-Crisis, spent waaay too much time trying to "explain" where she came from when it would have been much, much, easier just to say that Zor El had two daughters.
That wouldn't have worked, at least initially. The Byrne reboot went out of its way to establish Superman as the only surviving Kryptonian. No Supergirl, Superdog or anything else. The Crisis had already removed Supergirl from the roster of heroes, so it didn't mess anything up to say that she never existed. Power Girl, for whatever reason, was still on the active list, so they had to scramble for some explanation for her that didn't involve Krypton.
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Old December 18 2011, 07:15 AM   #2706
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

How is it's Byrne's fault? At the end of COIE she is still the E-2 Superman's cousin who somehow didn't get erased from existence. Wolfman could have killed her off in COIE. Thomas could have banished her to Ragnarok in Last Days of the JSA. They didn't have to use her post COIE. We didn't need a Atlantean origin or see her in JLAEIOU. Byrne was asked to clear the decks. He was prepared to do his "reboot" within the confines of the old continuity, but they said no. So he cleared the decks and then they realized they had to deal with things like Superboy and the LSH and Power Girl.
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Old December 18 2011, 08:11 AM   #2707
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Actually, Byrne insisted on clearing the decks. Making Kal el the sole survivor of Krypton was something he demanded as a condition of taking over the book. It wasn't something DC asked him to do.
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Old December 18 2011, 02:33 PM   #2708
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

For those interested in annotations and commentary for the first four issues of Grant Morrison's Action Comics, this site has some along with those for "Batman, Inc" and "Final Crisis".


https://sites.google.com/site/deepsp...-1-annotations
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Old December 18 2011, 03:57 PM   #2709
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Santa Kang wrote: View Post
How is it's Byrne's fault? At the end of COIE she is still the E-2 Superman's cousin who somehow didn't get erased from existence. Wolfman could have killed her off in COIE. Thomas could have banished her to Ragnarok in Last Days of the JSA. They didn't have to use her post COIE. We didn't need a Atlantean origin or see her in JLAEIOU. Byrne was asked to clear the decks. He was prepared to do his "reboot" within the confines of the old continuity, but they said no. So he cleared the decks and then they realized they had to deal with things like Superboy and the LSH and Power Girl.
It has been a couple of decades since I looked at those pages, but I thought the implication was that she was now Kal-El's cousin at the end of COIE.
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Old December 18 2011, 04:00 PM   #2710
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Karen was re-established as Kal-L's (the Golden Age Superman) cousin and the Supergirl who "died" in Crisis in Infinite Earths, in Infinite Crisis.
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Old December 18 2011, 04:19 PM   #2711
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

the G-man wrote: View Post
Actually, Byrne insisted on clearing the decks. Making Kal el the sole survivor of Krypton was something he demanded as a condition of taking over the book. It wasn't something DC asked him to do.
Other way around. Byrne offered to come on and do his book in current continuity (much like on FF when he focused on the thing that made them cool and just stopped referring to the not s great stuff.). DC wanted a ground zero relaunch. So JB went away, thought about it and came back with a list of "unreasonable demands" regarding the direction of the character--expecting DC to shoot down most of them. Surprsingly DC agreed to all but one--pregnant Lara arriving on Earth in the rocket and dieing of Kryptonite poisoning after giving birth.
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Old December 18 2011, 07:36 PM   #2712
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Yeah, I'm agnostic on what Byrne desired in his heart of hearts, but it'd be pretty weird that he wanted to destroy all Kryptonians (and thus many Superman ancillary characters) for all time, only to turn around and within the first couple of years do a story about the Time-Trapper that ultimately introduced the Matrix Supergirl.
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Old December 18 2011, 09:23 PM   #2713
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

My earlier post only referred to all the events associated with the post-Crisis reboot; I didn't mean to imply it was John Byrne's fault. I was just pointing out to the G-man that Power Girl couldn't another surviving Kryptonian daughter if there were no other survivors.
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Old December 18 2011, 10:33 PM   #2714
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Demon Knights #4 - another good read, a holdover from last week for me. The origin of the Shining Knight was good, especially for me, as I know nothing of the character. I guess he's somehow immortal if I followed it correctly. High praise for the artwork.
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Old December 18 2011, 11:36 PM   #2715
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Mike Farley wrote: View Post
the G-man wrote: View Post
Actually, Byrne insisted on clearing the decks. Making Kal el the sole survivor of Krypton was something he demanded as a condition of taking over the book. It wasn't something DC asked him to do.
Other way around. Byrne offered to come on and do his book in current continuity (much like on FF when he focused on the thing that made them cool and just stopped referring to the not s great stuff.). DC wanted a ground zero relaunch. So JB went away, thought about it and came back with a list of "unreasonable demands" regarding the direction of the character--expecting DC to shoot down most of them. Surprsingly DC agreed to all but one--pregnant Lara arriving on Earth in the rocket and dieing of Kryptonite poisoning after giving birth.
Okay, I don't really care if it was DC or Byrne who messed up Power Girl's origins. I was just pointing out, that as far as I can recall, COIE ended with Power Girl and Superman walking toward his fortress of solitude and the implication was that Power Girl now replaced Supergirl as his Kryptonian cousin. Her origin was then messed up later.
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