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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old December 15 2011, 11:09 PM   #511
Satyrquaze
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

DonIago wrote: View Post
I'll admit I kind of liked Arjin and hoped we'd see more of him (especially if he ended up getting joined). Anyone know whether any non-canon materials ever followed up on him?
Apparently not.
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Old December 15 2011, 11:21 PM   #512
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Profit and loss is one of my top ten personal favorites but I can see why others don't like it. As for Garak the way I saw it was that he planned to kill Gul Toran the entire time which is why he had a second phaser.
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Old December 16 2011, 02:29 AM   #513
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TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Profit and Loss is also one of my favorite episodes. Quark and Natima would have made an interesting couple. I wonder what they would have done with that if they had her back in some later episodes?
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Old December 16 2011, 04:18 AM   #514
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I've always considered Profit and Loss to be a fun above average episode. I kinda wish that the writers would have brought Natima back later in the series.
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Old December 16 2011, 04:58 AM   #515
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I kind of like Profit and Loss. Yes, it's another romance-of-the-week, but it does help define Quark's character rather significantly. It shows that he's not, in fact, the universe's ultimate materialist. He is willing to look beyond profit in some situations, an aspect of him that later episodes really develop. And, the romance doesn't feel like it comes out of left field.

As for Garak, I could take or leave this appearance. Robinson does the best with what he's given and makes it slightly above average, but it's not up to his usual greatness.
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Old December 16 2011, 05:36 AM   #516
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I liked "Profit and Loss," too, though I think it would have held up better if Natima had returned at some point.
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Old December 16 2011, 05:41 AM   #517
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

^ Indeed, she was a good character - not to mention very attractive. But, i don't think she was the most attractive female Cardassian on the show (like Ln X said).
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Old December 16 2011, 06:36 PM   #518
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

BruntFCA wrote: View Post
As for Garak the way I saw it was that he planned to kill Gul Toran the entire time which is why he had a second phaser.
The second phaser was the one that he took from Quark. Sure, he could have planned on Quark having the phaser and taking it from him before Toran showed up, but I didn't get that impression.

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
It shows that he's not, in fact, the universe's ultimate materialist. He is willing to look beyond profit in some situations, an aspect of him that later episodes really develop.
But that's the thing, Quark takes three steps forward in this episode and then takes three steps back in the next, then he spends the rest of the series slowly taking two steps forward again. It's like as if the Quark in this episode is at the end of his character arc, not somewhere near the beginning of it. The same applies to Garak's actions in this episode. I think it was a symptom of the show's episodic nature and that they weren't planning ahead much for future episodes, so they ended the episode by having both of them be heroic even though neither of them were heroes yet.


Blood Oath (***½)


This is my first time seeing this episode since watching TOS, so I finally know who the Klingon guys are. Kor was the first Klingon, he likes talking and executing innocent people. Koloth likes shore-leave and poisoning people. Kang enjoys sword-fights and laughing. I wouldn't say that seeing TOS increased my sentimentality towards this episode or these characters, but I do appreciate that these guys aren't your typical loud, boorish Klingons that became far too common in the post-TOS era. Sure, they shout and act gruff sometimes, but they don't act like as if they're constantly overcompensating for their small members. And that's because they're not, they don't have to act tough because they are tough, they're Dahar Masters which is something so impressive that even Odo displays some reverence towards them. It feels a little weird having a DS9 Klingon episode without Worf, but I suppose he was doing better things with his time, like awkwardly failing to ask Troi out on a date.

After spending a whole episode in season 1 explaining that Jadzia Dax is a different person from Curzon Dax and not bound by his actions, now we get an episode where Jadzia decides that she is and spends 20 minutes trying to prove it. In truth Jadzia's motivation here isn't logical at all, seeing her old friends again causes her old desire for revenge to resurface and she throws protocol out the window so that she can get her bloodlust on. It isn't what one would consider a commendable line of thinking for a Starfleet officer, but I guess that's part of the point of the episode. On the surface this episode shows the character's strengths, both physically and mentally as she is absolutely determined to go on this adventure and refuses to let herself be left behind. But it could also be argued that this episode displays the weakness of Jadzia in that she can't control this desire for vengeance from a previous life like a Trill is supposed to do. It's an interesting duality, and something that doesn't go away as Curzon's interest in Klingon culture becomes part of Jadzia's character.

The episode itself is good, but I wouldn't consider it great. The Klingon characters come across well in tone, but they still succumb to that old-fashioned Klingon stupidity and it's down to Jadzia to devise a plan better than rushing through the front gate and get themselves killed. The climactic battle where they fight off a small army of androids (which they clearly were as they didn't leave any blood on the bat'leths) was bigger than any action scene on the show so far. The final scene of the episode is great in concept, but the impact this has on Jadzia's friendships is never explored later and that hurts the episode a little.

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Old December 16 2011, 07:31 PM   #519
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I suspect the episode fares much more poorly if you aren't familiar with these particular Klingons to begin with...as it is I regrettably have trouble taking it -too- seriously just because there are, unfortunately, no consequences. I do like seeing Kang, Kor and Koloth together though.
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Old December 16 2011, 08:09 PM   #520
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I always loved this exchange from the episode:

Odo: How did you get in here?
Koloth: I am Koloth.
Odo: That doesn't answer my question.
Koloth: Yes it does

Something about understated egotism/confidence borne from decades of experience on the part of the Klingon makes me smile.

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Old December 16 2011, 09:07 PM   #521
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

DonIago wrote: View Post
there are, unfortunately, no consequences
I think that dead Kang and Koloth would disagree.
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Old December 16 2011, 09:45 PM   #522
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Sorry, I meant no consequences for the primary characters. Given the look Sisko gave Dax at the end of the episode it was pretty disappointing how quickly the status quo returned.

A story filling in the blanks there would be nice.
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Old December 16 2011, 10:50 PM   #523
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Blood Oath was decent accept for one thing; that damned albino word! I dunno why but it made me cringe everytime someone said a***** in that episode! What a naff name! Another gripe with this episode is how implausible everything is, even the script explicitly shows the implausiblity, with quite a few 'I don't hows' and so forth.

Maybe I'm missing something by why did those three Klingons come to DS9? How did the a***** infect those Klingon babies? Why did the a***** even invite Kor and the two other Klingons for this death-party in the first place?

The only really good bit was Kira describing to Jadzia what it was like killing someone. The directing in that scene was superb, with both Kira and Jadzia sounding rather nervous (initially) when Jadzia broods about carrying through this blood oath.
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Old December 16 2011, 11:22 PM   #524
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

This may be a little late but I've had some thoughts about Paradise and this proves how the plot just falls apart. Firstly:

At the start of the first scene, O'Brien detects a duonetic field and he must know about its properties, as that was indicated in the episode. Dig this! So Sisko and O'Brien beam INTO the duonetic field and then wonder why there technology ain't working!!! How stupid is that? They could have beamed somewhere just out of the duonetic field and investigated, but no they beamed inside it!

Secondly:

The next thing is the duonetic field itself, there does not seem to be an indication that it covers the whole planet. Indeed the device does not seem big enough to generate a field that size. So eventually those people from the crashed ship should have fanned out to find a spot where their technology WOULD work.

This would have happened but it didn't, they just stupidly stayed around one area and did not venture outwards??? Those two things cause the whole plot to fall apart. When the people had found a place where their technology worked, they would have sent out a distress call and eventually been rescued. This meant that revolting bitch Alixus would not have been able to implement her dumb low-tech philosophy, and we would have no episode.

Seriously plotholes like this should give Paradise a zero for dumb plot.

Now I'm off to watch the episode!
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Old December 17 2011, 12:16 AM   #525
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I love Blood Oath - it's great seeing those three Klingons again, and having them team up is a stroke of genius. Jadzia feeling the bloodlust is a good continuation of Curzon's relationship with the Klingons, and is similar to what we have seen of Worf so far in TNG. It just touched all the right places for me to make it really enjoyable.

And have we finally made it through the dreck? Are we at the good end of the season? Does everyone still have their limbs and eyesight? I can't believe we made it!
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