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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old December 14 2011, 10:21 PM   #496
DonIago
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I'll admit I kind of liked Arjin and hoped we'd see more of him (especially if he ended up getting joined). Anyone know whether any non-canon materials ever followed up on him?
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Old December 14 2011, 10:27 PM   #497
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Sometimes I think "Playing God" might actually be worse than "Meridian."
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Old December 14 2011, 11:46 PM   #498
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

At least PG has a character in it who I feel I can actually relate to.
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Old December 15 2011, 12:20 AM   #499
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Playing God had some serious sci-fi slock... A miniture universe? Right... It scarry to think that could have been their universe or think of the ending of Men in Black, with that alien playing around with universes. CRAZY!

This was a meh episode that used the Trill guy to really showcase Dax's character. It's probably from this episode that see the Curzon in Jadzia: singing Klingon opera, greeting that Trill guy with just a towel on...

I disagree with TheGodBen that Trill episodes lose their interest, this Trill episode was not interesting. But I thought Dax, Facets and Rejoined are all good Trill episodes. Maybe the angle about the Trill was one-sided, but I think the Trill were a culture like any other. Perhaps closely related to 24th century Earth, except for the symbionts and all.

The best bits of Playing God was Arjin confronting Jadzia, that was good, and then Arjin crying into his synthale... The worst bit was right at the end when Jadzia pulls off the most stupidest of winning looks and says 'I'm not Curzon!'

Jeez... About the dumbest lines ever, and some of the dumbest directing ever. Seriously how many times have you thought about a person you did not really like, or had bad memories of, and say out loud in public: 'I'm not <blank>'.
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Old December 15 2011, 03:51 AM   #500
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Honestly, I think the problem with the Trill is that they just didn't try. It's not like there isn't plenty of possibility there with a minimum of effort (hell, the DS9 Relaunch made the skeletons in the closet of Trill society a running plot thread for 6 books), it's that they were more interested in exploring Cardsassians, Bajorans, Ferengi, and Klingons. Which is fair enough and I can't blame them (well... the Ferengi...), but the Trill in general end up getting the Jake treatment.

I've always liked Playing God well enough, but it was never all that great to me. The backstory was more interesting than the actual plot, unfortunately.
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Old December 15 2011, 04:00 AM   #501
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
Sometimes I think "Playing God" might actually be worse than "Meridian."
That's a bold statement.

Playing God is probably a 2 or 2½ star episode for me. Arjin is a character I kind of like, even though he is a little bland. The scene where he confronts Jadzia about her being so woefully below her own strict standards for joining is pure gold, IMHO. But, then again, it's no secret that I don't like Jadzia.
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Old December 15 2011, 04:02 AM   #502
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
No, I can't say that I did.
He was ALWAYS hunched over, I think that may have had something to do with the fact Lofton was tall compared to Nog/Quark/Kira.

Regarding "Playing God", I thought it was pretty interesting seeing the interaction between Jadzia and the other Trill, but the sideplot was a borefest.

I definitely agree they didn't bring enough Trill culture into the show. I assume it is much like earth, the Trill seemed to be at a similar stage of technological development as earth at least.
But it was mostly focused on the whole symbiont side of things, it wouldn't have hurt to introduce a couple of basic Trill things - maybe seeing Jadzia celebrate a Trill holiday or mention something of Trill history
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Old December 15 2011, 04:07 AM   #503
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
Sometimes I think "Playing God" might actually be worse than "Meridian."
That's a bold statement.
Is it really? "Meridian" is awful, but so is "Playing God." Neither episode really has any redeeming qualities, IMO. And besides, I only said 'sometimes'.
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Old December 15 2011, 04:11 AM   #504
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I always thought it would have been great to see Jadzia without Dax, I had an idea for an episode a while back when I was posting my story ideas in the fanfic section where Jadzia is basically mentally separated from Dax due to some kind of alien sickness. Jadzia begins to realize she enjoys life more without Dax. Without 300 years of memories, she is able to have more new experiences and life holds more surprises and excitement for her, as well as get along better with her family back on Trill. That would have been a really interesting angle on her character. Not to blow my own trumpet, but if I hadn't been a kid and got a chance to pitch to TNG/VOY/DS9 back in the 90s, I woulda blown them away ;-)
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Old December 15 2011, 04:11 AM   #505
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
He was ALWAYS hunched over
Hmmm... I'll have to look for that next time I watch a Jake-centric episode. Never noticed it before.

Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
"Meridian" is awful, but so is "Playing God."
Meridian isn't awful - it's crap. Calling it awful is too generous. At least Playing God has a scene I actually enjoy every time I see it.
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Old December 15 2011, 04:53 AM   #506
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I thought that 'Playing God' was about 50% good and 50% bad. I enjoyed the Trill storyline and thought that Arjin was an interesting character. The B-story concerning the micro-universe was abysmal however - which frustrates me because I like high concept sci-fi and I think that the idea of a micro-universe could be the basis of a great episode. This episode also has one of the worst uses of the transporter in the entire franchise. The idea that the transporter could de-materialize then re-materialize something as unimaginably complex as a universe is beyond ridiculous.
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Old December 15 2011, 06:12 PM   #507
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

It's a weird show. The stupid Universe story was silly and should go away, as DS9 just wasn't really like TNG or VOY in that way. Well, when it was being good. We have been revisiting seasons one and two after all!

I guess I give the episode a bit more credit (not much, mind - 2-2.5 stars?) with the Arjin storyline, as I found it relatively interesting. Jadzia keeps knocking him back and taking him down a peg, as she struggles with how Curzon rejected her from the Initiate Program. It was a decent enough hook, but I think that in the end, it just didn't play out properly.

And shoving a sci-fi gimmick into the mix didn't help the problem, it just made it larger.

I always loved the Trill though. I enjoyed the idea of the symbiant continuing to live after the host died, as their memories would go on and be re-lived in a way not possible with us. Relationships with friends and other races could potentially for a long while, and I just feel that a race wielding this much presence could have had more of a role in the proceedings somehow.

I find it amusing how having a symbiant inside a host is a bit gross and parasitic in nature, yet their is a great importance and honour in having one.
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Old December 15 2011, 06:35 PM   #508
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

How did the Trill realise that if they cut open their stomachs and put a disgusting worm that lives in ponds of goo underground into their body that they'd develop a symbiotic relationship? I can appreciate that people sometimes do weird things with their bodies while bored, but that seems to be several steps beyond dripping hot wax onto your arm.


Profit and Loss (**)

What is love? Baby don't hurt me. Don't hurt me no more.



I like this joke, I think I'll keep it and run it into the ground.

Quark, the galaxy's ultimate materialist, is in love and is willing to sacrifice all his possessions to be with the object of his affections. Yeah, I don't buy it. At least this romance-of-the-week story is a bit more grounded than Melora or Second Sight as Quark and Natima have a history together, but it just rings false to me. If Quark had been lovesick all this time then there would have been signs, but there was no indication that he was so in love with someone that he'd be willing to throw away everything to be with her, nor will he even mention her again in the future. All the scenes where Quark was begging and pleading for her to stay felt very out of character for him and that harmed much of the episode. It shouldn't be surprising though considering this episode started out as a homage to Casablanca, which meant that Quark's motivations were copied over from Rick Blaine rather than having them grow naturally from his character.

Even beyond the romance angle, this episode struggles. It's like watching a car driving down an icy road, heading in a direction that you want it to go in, but swerving all over the road and occasionally hitting things. What it does right is introduce the Cardassian dissident movement, something that plays a big role in later story arcs. It also has Garak, a character that every show should include. Even shows that strive for grounded realism, like The Wire, would be improved by including a Cardassian super-spy. But even Garak can't help himself from being flung around in the metaphorical car, doing whatever acts the episode needs him to do. For a guy that usually plans three steps ahead of everyone else, he falls for a very simple lie from Gul Toran and then switches sides seemingly out of spite. Does Garak really support the dissident movement? Does he aid their escape so that they can be a thorn in the side of the Cardassian leadership? I don't know, and I'd be fine with not knowing if I didn't feel that even Garak doesn't know why he did what he did, he just did it because the plot demanded it of him.
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Old December 15 2011, 10:35 PM   #509
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

There was one good thing about Profit and Loss; Natima Lang, she was the prettiest Cardassian woman I've ever seen. I always thought this episode was a bit of fun, not exactly fluff. I personally thought the whole idea of Quark rediscovering his feelings for Natima was plausible.

Whatever you said TheGodBen about their being signs, you're forgetting that Ferengi pursue profit first, love comes later. And if they can't find a woman, that's where (as Quark says) holosuites come in. So you can make out with all the (imaginary) women you want to... The scene with Natima shooting Quark and then fretting over him was a little mushy, nice little 180 degrees change of heart. I would say this episode is exactly average.
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Old December 15 2011, 10:39 PM   #510
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
How did the Trill realise that if they cut open their stomachs and put a disgusting worm that lives in ponds of goo underground into their body that they'd develop a symbiotic relationship? I can appreciate that people sometimes do weird things with their bodies while bored, but that seems to be several steps beyond dripping hot wax onto your arm.
Hmm, good point. Maybe several millenia ago the symbiant took over a host of its own accord, and the host felt very privileged and went around recommending it to people? Perhaps they started pimping out other hosts to symbiants?

Maybe there was an average episode about it, and Garak had something to do with it all, but no one really knows? That's the answer.

Profit and Loss is pretty average, on the whole. Garak makes me go yay! And then also, why did they even bother? Waste of his time, really.
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