RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,547
Posts: 5,513,369
Members: 25,143
Currently online: 499
Newest member: ShadowL

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 8 2011, 04:47 AM   #466
Nerys Ghemor
Vice Admiral
 
Nerys Ghemor's Avatar
 
Location: Cardăsa Terăm--Nerys Ghemor
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Exactly. It's another indication that TPTB still weren't completely interested in developing the world as fully as they should.
That or they weren't interested in proofreading.

It's like the time Colonel Tigh on nuBsG said, "Jesus!"
__________________
Are you a Cardassian fan, citizen? Prove your loyalty--check out my fanfic universe, Star Trek: Sigils and Unions. Or keep the faith on my AU Cardassia, Sigils and Unions: Catacombs of Oralius!
Nerys Ghemor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2011, 01:27 PM   #467
Admiral Shran
Admiral
 
Location: In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
the episode gets a bonus point for having Admiral Jarok in it.
He is great, as usual. He's one of the main reasons why The Defector is my favorite episode of TNG.
__________________
Vote Obomney 2012!
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that it's magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert, Dune
Admiral Shran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2011, 06:03 PM   #468
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Armageddon Game (*½)



Every time I heard the word "harvester" in this episode I sang that song in my head. I think it was a reaction to the melodrama attached to the harvester weapons and how super, super dangerous they supposedly are. Nothing defuses drama quite as well as the Wurzels.

Two races, the T'Lani and the Kelleruns, need help from Starfleet to neutralise their arsenal of deadly combine harvesters. Now, I'm no fancy space-doctor, but I think I have a solution that may be less time-consuming: FIRE THEM INTO THE SUN!! Problem solved, and there's no need to murder anybody, especially not officers from the greatest superpower in known space, an empire that would at least impose sanctions on your worlds for such a heinous act. If you're worried that the combine harvesters would somehow survive being propelled into a super-hot ball of nuclear fusion, then fire them into a black hole out in the arse end of nowhere. I guarantee you that they will not be coming back. (Although I cannot guarantee that they wont travel back in time somehow and wipe out the population of Vulcan, or something stupid like that.)

With a title like Armageddon Game, you expect exciting things like terrorists attempting to blow up stars, not two men in a room doing soldering on an old computer while one of them slowly dies. The only action in this episode is a shootout that's undermined by the stupid reasoning behind it and a runabout chase sequence that suffers from the fact that it's in this episode. I suppose the title Two Men Talk For a Bit probably wasn't deemed exciting enough, but the result is the most disappointing Armageddon-titled story since that Bruce Willis movie. Which is odd considering that movie came out after this episode.

Anyway, I wouldn't have been put off with the title Two Men Talk For a Bit because I like those kinds of story, and I especially like watching O'Brien and Bashir interacting because they have great chemistry together that develops into one of TV's great bromances. I guess this episode is the starting point of that friendship as O'Brien stops viewing Bashir as that annoyingly cocky guy and starts treating him like an actual person whose personal life he's somewhat interested in. The episode earns points for that and only that, every other element of the story should have been chucked into a black hole to protect us defenceless viewers.

Runabouts Lost: 2

So long Ganges, I'll never forget our time together.
__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2011, 07:15 PM   #469
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: Ch'Rihan.
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Something I pointed out in Shatnertage's review which I'll also point out here - at the end Mora says "My God, what have I done." He should have said "By the Prophets, what have I done."

Yeah, it's nipicky, but it really irks me.
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
Whoops...much as I believe in giving God His due, bad writing is bad writing!
Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
I recall Kira saying "my god" at least once, too. I just can't remember which episode it was, now.
Quark also says "good lord" at one point, if I remember correctly (though I suppose "Blessed Exchequer!" would have all but the most attentive fans scratching their head). It's worse with Bajorans, though, given that their religious traditions are so often at the forefront. I guess it just shows how often and casually we use such expressions, that they slip past the writers without thought.

For what it's worth, Babylon Five was quite good at this; lots of "By G'Quan!" or "Great Maker!" or "In Valen's Name!" Although if you watch the pilot episode after the rest of the series it's jarring when Londo Mollari says "my god!" in that one. Annoying, too, in that it's part of a memorable speech and it sticks out sorely. The trend also led me to some rather attentive double-checking. Whenever Londo exclaimed "gods!" I'd listen extra closely to make sure it was the plural. Slightly off topic, the same with "hearts", for that matter. Little continuity details matter.
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2011, 07:57 PM   #470
Sykonee
Fleet Captain
 
Sykonee's Avatar
 
Location: West Coast of Canada
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Sykonee
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Armageddon Game (*½)
Two races, the T'Lani and the Kelleruns, need help from Starfleet to neutralise their arsenal of deadly combine harvesters. Now, I'm no fancy space-doctor, but I think I have a solution that may be less time-consuming: FIRE THEM INTO THE SUN!! Problem solved, and there's no need to murder anybody, especially not officers from the greatest superpower in known space, an empire that would at least impose sanctions on your worlds for such a heinous act.
I dunno. Maybe they saw Superman IV and were worried someone might have planted a seed within the Harvesters. Then they'd have to deal with a whole new menace: Nuclear Harvesting Man!
__________________
DS9 Versus
Electronic Music Critic: (~)
Sykonee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2011, 09:30 PM   #471
MrBorg
Lieutenant Commander
 
MrBorg's Avatar
 
Location: Cube 0398, Grid 343
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I never understood why they called them the "Harvesters". I mean, it sounds kind of cool but... what do they harvest? Maybe something like the "Devourers" instead. Unless they "harvest" life or something.
__________________
For Cardassia!
MrBorg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2011, 10:10 PM   #472
Seven of Five
Commodore
 
Seven of Five's Avatar
 
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Ooh, Harvesters popped up in Elite Force II!!!1! Well, not these Harvesters. But it was a decent enough game!

O'Brien/Bashir interaction has twice helped out episodes this season, and once in the first season. Why do they have to tread water amongst the duff stuff? I'm genuinely having a hard time recalling the rest of the episode, which is probably for the best.

Great G'Quans indeed.
__________________
Other prisons do Shakespeare and shit. I want to play a role, like Desdemona or Ophelia or Clair Huxtable.
Seven of Five is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2011, 02:56 AM   #473
Admiral Shran
Admiral
 
Location: In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
f you're worried that the combine harvesters would somehow survive being propelled into a super-hot ball of nuclear fusion, then fire them into a black hole out in the arse end of nowhere. I guarantee you that they will not be coming back. (Although I cannot guarantee that they wont travel back in time somehow and wipe out the population of Vulcan, or something stupid like that.)


Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Little continuity details matter.
Indeed they do. Even Brannon Braga knew that when he once reminded the viewers that Neelix has only one lung.


As for Armageddon Game - yeah, not much to say except that the O'Brien-Bashir stuff is pretty nice. When is this mid-season slump going to end?
__________________
Vote Obomney 2012!
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that it's magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert, Dune
Admiral Shran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2011, 06:41 PM   #474
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Seven Swans a Swimming wrote: View Post
Ooh, Harvesters popped up in Elite Force II!!!1! Well, not these Harvesters. But it was a decent enough game!
I preferred Elite Force 1, which is weird considering I'm a Voyager semi-hater. Other than that mission on the abandoned Excelsior class, I barely even remember that game.


Whispers (****)

Whispers is an episode that's aided by the fact that Star Trek has done a number stories about conspiracies or personality-altering infections in the past, because that makes you think you know what's going on and that O'Brien will save the day with some sort of psionic wave pulse, or whatever bullshit science usually saves the day. Well I did the first time I saw the episode at any rate. I didn't cop on to the fact that O'Brien wasn't O'Brien until I was told so by the episode, which didn't just provide a shocking twist at the end, it made the whole episode into a series escalating twists. At first I thought that Keiko was possessed by some sinister alien (which she later would be). Then it seemed like Sisko might be involved, leading me to suspect an affair for a little while. Then Kira seems to be involved. Then O'Brien's own staff. Then Odo. Then Jake. By the time that it was revealed that an admiral was involved, I began to lose faith in the magical ability of the psionic wave pulse to solve all problems and figured that the episode either didn't know what it was doing or was heading for a two-parter. So the fact that the O'Brien I had been watching for the last hour was actually a replicant, and the "bad guy" of the story at that, took me completely by surprise.

Even knowing the twist, the episode is still enjoyable. The progression of O'Brien's state of mind from confusion to paranoia to seemingly-justified fear was well handled, and it's helped greatly by the fact that O'Brien is the most normal, and arguably the most likeable person in the cast. Watching someone unravel a conspiracy is always a fun experience, especially one that is as far-reaching as this one appears. The idea that these aliens could create a perfect replica of a human being, including all his memories, is a little hard to swallow, but the rest of the episode acts as the sugar that helps it go down. (I'm fighting the instinct to do a bj joke right now.) Sadly, the final scene is rushed and is very heavy on exposition, which undermines the tragic ending a little. But it doesn't hurt the episode too badly and it remains one of my favourite episodes of the first two seasons.
__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10 2011, 05:54 AM   #475
defiantfan
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
because that makes you think you know what's going on and that O'Brien will save the day with some sort of psionic wave pulse, or whatever bullshit science usually saves the day.
I was also shocked by the plot twists and I totally felt for O'Brien especially when Jake stopped believing him. I want to know when exactly Keiko was informed and why didn't she just take off with Molly to Bajor? That dinner scene freaked me out, especially since they appeared to only suspect he was a clone.
defiantfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10 2011, 06:09 AM   #476
Admiral Shran
Admiral
 
Location: In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Whispers is a solid episode (and considering what we've had before this, certainly a breath of fresh air). However, for me at least, it suffers from repeated viewings. Knowing what will come lessens the impact, IMO. Other later DS9 episodes don't have this problem. It's probably because the whole episode is built around the mystery itself.

But, YMMV.

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
(I'm fighting the instinct to do a bj joke right now.)
You shouldn't be fighting who you are.
__________________
Vote Obomney 2012!
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that it's magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert, Dune
Admiral Shran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10 2011, 11:11 AM   #477
Seven of Five
Commodore
 
Seven of Five's Avatar
 
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Yeah, it's a shame when you've already seen it a few times, as the surprise just isn't there anymore. However, this works better than say Clues from TNG, as what is happening to O'Brien is far more interesting, and worth the rewatch. It seems like a massive conspiracy against him, before the rug is pulled from under us when we find out what he really was.

So I really like this episode. The best one for a while!

And now that I think about it, Harvesters were in the first Elite Force, my bad. What the hell did happen in the second one?
__________________
Other prisons do Shakespeare and shit. I want to play a role, like Desdemona or Ophelia or Clair Huxtable.
Seven of Five is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10 2011, 11:16 AM   #478
Admiral Shran
Admiral
 
Location: In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I don't know. Clues is one of my favorites of TNG. I'll grant that the mystery isn't as complex as in Whispers, but I think Brent Spiner's and Patrick Stewart's acting in that one really pulls it off.

One great scene from Clues, which I think really sells it for me, is from Patrick Stewart. When they're back at the planet and Picard suddenly gets the idea in his head that Starfleet could have ordered Data to lie. Very good acting there.

And I never played Elite Force.
__________________
Vote Obomney 2012!
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that it's magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert, Dune
Admiral Shran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11 2011, 05:39 PM   #479
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Seven Swans a Swimming wrote: View Post
And now that I think about it, Harvesters were in the first Elite Force, my bad. What the hell did happen in the second one?
I seem to remember the final mission involved a Romulan in a lava-filled cave firing rocked at you from the head of a robotic snake thing. I have no idea how I got there or why.


Paradise (***½)

This is a strong episode with a stupid ending. I deplore Alixus, her philosophy and her methodology. Her idea that technology somehow makes us lose our "core identities" is absurd. She judges people by their profession, which is made very clear at the end of the episode when she points out that the colonists would just have been clerks or technicians, but on this planet they are so much more because they're farmers and tool-makers and whatnot. Bullplop! I believe that a person's core identity isn't their profession, but their interests, their values... their personality. Sure, there are problems associated with technology and how we incorporate it into our lives, but it also aides in liberating us and allowing us to discover more about our true selves. Alixus doesn't even seem to believe in the concept of free time to allow people to explore their interests as she chastises O'Brien for trying to use technology to overcome the magical anti-tech field when he could have been doing something more productive.

All that being said, I admire the episode for showing her point of view and for not painting her as an out-and-out villain, even though I think she's a loon that must be opposed. How the survivors bought into her crazy philosophy after the crash I will never understand, but plenty of seemingly sane people buy into all kinds of crazy cults here on Earth, so it's not all that unbelievable. What is unbelievable is the notion that none of the colonists want to leave after the truth is revealed. Yes, they have a life on the planet and I can understand wanting to stay and continuing their work, but surely some of these people have family or friends in the Federation that they'd like to see and hear from again.

But what makes this episode memorable is Sisko. This episode focuses more on him, his personality and his convictions than any episode since Emissary, and it's a way, way better episode for him than Second Sight. I watched this episode as a child with barely any understanding what was going on, but that scene where Sisko stumbled back into the box stood out and remained in my memory even even as the rest of the episode faded away and was forgotten. It's a powerful moment, one that commands attention, and one that gives us a better idea of the Sisko that will emerge in later seasons.
__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11 2011, 05:51 PM   #480
MrBorg
Lieutenant Commander
 
MrBorg's Avatar
 
Location: Cube 0398, Grid 343
Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

When I watched this episode, I wanted to hit Alixus over the head with a spiked club covered in acid.

What a b****.

Maybe its just because I couldn't live without technology, though.
__________________
For Cardassia!
MrBorg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
deep space nine, ds9, episode discussion, review

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.