RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,366
Posts: 5,356,150
Members: 24,625
Currently online: 677
Newest member: 3d gird

TrekToday headlines

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 7 2011, 04:52 AM   #46
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

Hey I forgot about this thread...this was one of my favorites ever....the reason behind it were two-fold: 1) Yes, SF can predict the future, though that's not it's true reason for being, it is interesting to take a look back how it parallels real scientific development. 2) A lot of the tech we think of as radical and brand new really WAS thought of a long time ago...but what is more fascinating is the accelerated growth of recent technology, it's redefining what we think of the future in more profound ways than sky cities, jet packs and floating cars. Now some of the tech we've seen from decades ago is being thought of on realistic terms, ie: suspended animation...probably would never work without nanotech after re-animation.

Here's something specific: Minority Report, the film version has some controlled motorways and guided transportation that are interlinked, these are low profile vehicles to save space. There are numerous versions of such guided traffic in real life speculation and SF, most notably might be the film "Designing the Future" sponsored by GM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iepyjVthBM&hd=1

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/12...ar-all-driver/

http://i.bnet.com/blogs/minority_rep...ed_driving.png

Another example would be I,Robot.

RAMA
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2011, 04:59 AM   #47
Stevil2001
Rear Admiral
 
Stevil2001's Avatar
 
Location: 2010
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

23skidoo wrote: View Post
Shelley also wrote a second novel called The Last Man, released in 1826, which is about a post-apocalyptic, plague-ravaged Earth of the 21st century, and was possibly the very first novel of that genre ever written.
"Last man" fiction was actually popular in the early 19th century; Shelley was by no means the first to tackle the theme. There's an 1805 French novel, a poem by Byron, and a painting, at least, as I recall.

Ubik wrote: View Post
War of the Worlds is the very first alien invasion book, while The Time Machine is the very first time machine in literature.
Edward Page Mitchell's "The Clock That Went Backward" precedes it by over a decade; it was published in 1881. It also invents the predestination paradox in fiction.
__________________
"I'm afraid Joe's just not the kind of guy that's meant to be adaptable."
Science's Less Accurate Grandmother
Stevil2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2011, 05:18 AM   #48
Ar-Pharazon
Rear Admiral
 
Ar-Pharazon's Avatar
 
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

Not the first ever sci-fi movie, but....Metropolis. The reason I finally went blu-ray.
__________________
Rimmer, on what period of history to live in-
“Well, It’d be the 19th century for me, one of Napoleon’s marshals.
The chance to march across Europe with the greatest general of all time and kill Belgians” - (White Hole).
Ar-Pharazon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2011, 05:24 AM   #49
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post
Not the first ever sci-fi movie, but....Metropolis. The reason I finally went blu-ray.
Whether you agree with elements of the movie or not...Metropolis did establish that SF could make a commentary about humanity and technology and do it well. The other side of the coin might be "Things to Come", which again puts society in the hands of a chosen few "elite" but with different results. These two films can make you wonder why such commentary and budgets were not applied to the copycat system of movie making more often.

RAMA
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2011, 03:25 PM   #50
xortex
Commodore
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

Who invented the transporter and replicator? And computer?
xortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2011, 03:39 PM   #51
Ar-Pharazon
Rear Admiral
 
Ar-Pharazon's Avatar
 
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

xortex wrote: View Post
Who invented the transporter and replicator? And computer?
That was me. Yeah. But I can't officially back that up with paperwork or anything.
__________________
Rimmer, on what period of history to live in-
“Well, It’d be the 19th century for me, one of Napoleon’s marshals.
The chance to march across Europe with the greatest general of all time and kill Belgians” - (White Hole).
Ar-Pharazon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2011, 03:57 PM   #52
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

xortex wrote: View Post
Who invented the transporter and replicator? And computer?
Teleportation:
http://www.magicdragon.com/UltimateS...that.html#beam
The earliest of all, according to Sam Moskowitz, was "The Man Without a Body" by Edward Page Mitchell [New York Sun, 25 March 1877]. Sam Moskowitz calls this "the first fictional exposition yet discovered of breaking matter down into energy scientifically and transmitting it to a receiver where it may be reformed."

The adverb "scientifically" is used by Moskowitz, one presumes, to eliminate the earlier but more fantasy-oriented "Helionde" by Sidney Whiting (1855) where the protagonist dreams that he is dissolved into vapor and transmitted to an inhabited Sun.

Matter/food synthesizers like the replicator have been a staple of science fiction for many decades, and arguably go as far back as Jules Verne's 1889 book In the Twenty-Ninth Century: The Day of an American Journalist in 2889: http://scifi.stackexchange.com/quest...ors-in-fiction


One could argue that the earliest known computer is the Antikythera mechanism built sometime in the second century BCE, and presumably there were others before it. But the type of programmable device we call a computer today was first proposed by Charles Babbage in 1837, and Ada Lovelace was the first computer programmer. Together, they fought crime! Or would have, in a more awesome reality than this one.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2011, 05:05 PM   #53
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

And I remember John Carter of Mars running into "mechanical brains" in one of the early Barsoom novels . . . .
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2011, 05:35 PM   #54
xortex
Commodore
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

I guess the first cro-magnon magician - Zargon the magnificent - made the first rock disappear and reappear in his hand, just like the most famous song ever - 'Happy Birthday' was written by a woman school teacher to greet her class every morning. She still gets royalties. If she's still alive she's very old.
xortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2011, 08:50 PM   #55
Lapis Exilis
Rear Admiral
 
Lapis Exilis's Avatar
 
Location: Underground
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

Christopher wrote: View Post
Of course, a lot of SF did anticipate mobile communication devices to some extent, but very few writers anticipated anything like the Internet.
A Logic Named Joe by Murrary Leinster published in 1946 Astounding Science Fiction:

"You know the logics setup. You got a logic in your house. It looks like a vision receiver used to, only it's got keys instead of dials and you punch the keys for what you wanna get. It's hooked in to the tank, which has the Carson Circuit all fixed up with relays. Say you punch "Station SNAFU" on your logic. Relays in the tank take over an' whatever vision-program SNAFU is telecastin' comes on your logic's screen. Or you punch "Sally Hancock's Phone" an' the screen blinks an' sputters an' you're hooked up with the logic in her house an' if somebody answers you got a vision-phone connection. But besides that, if you punch for the weather forecast or who won today's race at Hialeah or who was mistress of the White House durin' Garfield's administration or what is PDQ and R sellin' for today, that comes on the screen too. The relays in the tank do it. The tank is a big buildin' full of all the facts in creation an' all the recorded telecasts that ever was made—an' it's hooked in with all the other tanks all over the country—an' everything you wanna know or see or hear, you punch for it an' you get it. Very convenient. Also it does math for you, an' keeps books, an' acts as consultin' chemist, physicist, astronomer, an' tea-leaf reader, with a "Advice to the Lovelorn" thrown in."

The only thing this lacks for decribing the internet is a mention of porn.
__________________
Don't try to win over the haters; you're not the jackass whisperer. - Scott Straten
Lapis Exilis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2011, 09:44 PM   #56
Asbo Zaprudder
Rear Admiral
 
Asbo Zaprudder's Avatar
 
Location: Magic realism
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

Vannevar Bush came pretty close to describing hyperlinks and the WWW in the 1930s - being pre WW2 and electronic computers, his Memex system and its "associative trails" would have been based on microfilm technology. Not a SF author but his ideas were circulated widely and well regarded. He's also purported to have been a member of Majestic 12 if you give that any credence.
__________________
"Sans le canard de Vaucanson vous n'auriez rien qui fit ressouvenir de la gloire de la France." -- Voltaire -- Flip flap!
Asbo Zaprudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2011, 05:25 AM   #57
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

xortex wrote: View Post
Who invented the transporter and replicator? And computer?
Charles Babbage gets a lot of mileage these days, inventing what is basically a mechanical computer called the difference engine, which a working model was made of in 1991 from his design! Usually when we think steampunk, this is where it originates from.

Computers using more familiar techniques appeared in 1939. In 1940 a computer used remote accessing(like the internet...no Al Gore wasn't around). In 1944, a machine called Colossus did it's number crunching in breaking Nazi codes, it was kept a secret till the 1970s! The famous, and gigantic ENIAC appeared in 1946. The first microcomputer appeared in 1971, things moved slowly but surely, finally snowballing 10 years later into PCs and Macs. In 1960 the first modem was used, and in 1970 Arpanet was started. During the 70s SF writer's often had their terms "used" be real life researchers, such as "worm", et al...

BUT SF writers seemed to be slow in understanding the implications of computers, preferring slide rules to stored program or even mechanical computers of more sophistication. The earliest mention I can find of an info giving machine was in 1726, in Gulliver's Travels. "The Machine Stops"(1909) was a revelation:it provided life support, entertainment, communication and lots of things we associate modern computers with. In 1939, the ever reliable Robert Heinlein used a ship with a navigation computer.

I'm not including other forms of AI in this post.

Computer History

Replicators: First mention..Tom Swift(1910)...byproducts of a cyclotron are used to make any material desired. 1933, The Man Who Woke includes a dizzying array of technologies, including molecular replicators:

Today when we think of replicators, we think of nanotech assemblers, creating whatever we might want from molecules upward. Some current examples of 3D printers are primitive examples of making items out of raw materials for just about any need. NASA uses electron beams in experiments in orbit to create objects.

3D Printing
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2011, 05:40 AM   #58
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

Murray Leinster's 1945 novelette "First Contact" established the term "first contact" in science fiction, although the theme had previously appeared in e.g. H. G. Wells' The Time Machine (1895), The War of the Worlds (1898) and The First Men in the Moon (1901).

Edit: Just to show how long ago conceptually this was:
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2011, 07:17 AM   #59
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

xortex wrote: View Post
I guess the first cro-magnon magician - Zargon the magnificent - made the first rock disappear and reappear in his hand, just like the most famous song ever - 'Happy Birthday' was written by a woman school teacher to greet her class every morning. She still gets royalties. If she's still alive she's very old.
You've never heard of Google or Wikipedia, have you?
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2011, 07:12 PM   #60
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: Some science fiction "firsts"

Sometimes Science fiction begats or spurs forward whole philosophies and new fields of study, working almost hand-in-hand with scientists/technologists/futurists. In terms of the Singularity--possibly one of the future defining moments of mankind--defined as a point in time where computers or AI outstrip the natural evolution of human intelligence to the degree that predicting the thought process and technological leaps afterward are impossible to those preceeding it unaided.

The first conceptualization: 1847, the "Primitive Expounder" suggested eventually machines may become perfect, and surpass the ideas of humanity. 1951, Alan Turing expected machines to eventually outstrip humans and take control. In 1958, Stanislaw Ulam wrote:
One conversation centered on the ever accelerating progress of technology and changes in the mode of human life, which gives the appearance of approaching some essential singularity in the history of the race beyond which human affairs, as we know them, could not continue.
I.J. Good wrote of an intelligence explosion in 1965. The idea didn't seem to go anywhere until 1983, when scientist and science fiction writer Verner Vinge was central in popularizing it in his: "The Coming Technological Singularity" essay(expanded in 1993), and it specifically tied the term in with AI. He wrote novels using the speculation in 1986 and 1992, "The Fire Upon the Deep" being one of the most acclaimed and popular of the sub-genre. Advances in computers tied into Moore's Law of exponential growth in transistors placed on an integrated circuits and later processing speed and memory capacity made the idea seem more plausible. Cybernetic researchers such as Hans Moravec claimed the reality of advancing AI would have a timeline, and predicted the future on these mathematical models in 1988. The pace of sholarly and speculaive books continued, in 2005 Ray Kurzweil combined theories of nanotech, AI and immortality into a book which was made into a film. He espouses the positive side of the explosion of intelligence. Also in 2005, the story Accelerando makes an attempt at the "impossible", trying to discern what generations of a family might be like before, during and after the singularity. Another type of singularity might be the evolution from physical beings to discrete energy beings, or those that evolve and "leave" the universe. Speculation on such events have often led directly from first evolving into AI or mechanical beings, as in Gregory Benford's far future stories of the Galactic Center, or the nanotech manifested, virtual beings of Stephen Baxter's "The Time ships". Star Trek has multiple examples of such beings.

So far 3 non-fiction movies have been made on the subject of a technological singularity.

In SF, visual fiction has barely touched the topic...Colossus:The Forbin Project(1970), Demon Seed, War Games, Terminator have all scratched the surface of the subject portraying relatively one-sided views of computer takeover. A much more expansive film, The Matrix and it's sequels go into it with more depth, where AI and humanity finally reach an uneasy equilibrium in the end. A culture that builds a Dyson sphere/swarm or other monumental works involving whole solar systems including ringworlds, might well have gone through a Singularity, or even several. Examples of these have appeared in STNG, Andromeda, Stargate, Halo, Ringworld.

RAMA
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:34 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.