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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old December 5 2011, 02:02 AM   #16
DonIago
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Considering we're talking to someone who hasn't even seen all of S1 yet, I wonder whether folks should be avoiding spoilers?
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Old December 5 2011, 02:29 AM   #17
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Re: Does It Get Better???

One thing I can say is avoid the episode Threshold at all costs. It will make your head explode. It started off ok and then went very, very wrong.

Voyager's ratio of good to bad episodes is definitely below 50% but there are some good to great episodes scattered thruout it's run. Some of my Voyager favorites are Relativity, Distant Origin, Dreadnaught, Message in a Bottle, Drone, Timeless, Dragon's Teeth along with Year of Hell which should have been how the ship looked after a few years lost in space, kind of like starship Equinox from the Equinox episode.
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Old December 5 2011, 05:41 AM   #18
Gep Malakai
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Re: Does It Get Better???

DonIago wrote: View Post
Considering we're talking to someone who hasn't even seen all of S1 yet, I wonder whether folks should be avoiding spoilers?
Hmm.

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me, and remember: NO SPOILERS!
We should be fine.
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Old December 5 2011, 06:03 AM   #19
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Verily, tastes differ. Whatever standards it takes to regard Jetrel or Emanations as below average or average will not be satisfied by anything else in Voyager. As for risk taking, I'm not sure what SF shows everybody's been watching that do repeated episodes about death. Or about the role of art in human society. Since the OP thinks DS9 reached heights, plainly Voyager should be bumped from the queue.
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Old December 5 2011, 07:15 AM   #20
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I did some rankings of the episodes by categorizing each episode either "Excellent", "Good", "Mediocre" or "Poor"

These are my findings

Seasons ranked by highest percentage of episodes classed as "good" or "excellent"

Season 4 (75%)
Season 1 (67%)
Season 6 (65%)
Season 5 (61%)
Season 7 (59%)
Season 2 (50%)
Season 3 (37%)

Proportion of Excellent/Good episodes to Poor/Mediocre episodes

59% to 41%

If we break that down
Seasons 1- 3 proportion: 49/51
Seasons 4-7 proportion: 64/36

So if you share my tastes (although I would class "Emanations" as good and "Prime Factors" as excellent, so you may be a little harsher in your evaluations) then you're going to find it gets worse before its gets better in terms of the quality of individual episodes. But there is another factor, since the *feel* of seasons 1-3 and seasons 4-7 are different. Which atmosphere/feel you prefer can also influence you. I liked the atmosphere of seasons 1-3 a bit better than the later seasons, there was more warmth to them so I like season 2 and 3 a bit more than my list may suggest.
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Old December 5 2011, 11:02 PM   #21
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Re: Does It Get Better???

timelord1010 wrote: View Post
One thing I can say is avoid the episode Threshold at all costs. It will make your head explode. It started off ok and then went very, very wrong.

Voyager's ratio of good to bad episodes is definitely below 50% but there are some good to great episodes scattered thruout it's run. Some of my Voyager favorites are Relativity, Distant Origin, Dreadnaught, Message in a Bottle, Drone, Timeless, Dragon's Teeth along with Year of Hell which should have been how the ship looked after a few years lost in space, kind of like starship Equinox from the Equinox episode.
I have to disagree here. "Threshold" is actually funny in som places if the Admiral Screed consider the possibility that the events in it never happened.

Admiral Screed will understand what I mean after watching it, then I will come up with a more detailed theory about it.

The only episode that should be avoided at all costs is "Fury". Stupid, mean, insulting and a disgrace for everything Star Trek.

As for the ratings in the post above this one, how can season 6 and 4 have so high ratings? And why are the excellent seasons 2 and 3 in the bottom of the league?

Sometimes I don't understand the people of this world.
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Old December 5 2011, 11:39 PM   #22
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Not all of us place the same value on Kes that you do.
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Old December 6 2011, 03:37 AM   #23
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Re: Does It Get Better???

To give you guys an idea of what episodes I like and dislike, here are my ratings of each episode from season one. I rate episodes on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being awful, 10 being absolutely perfect, and 5 being borderline average (which is just fine, I should add).

The Caretaker P1/P2 5
Parallax 6
Time and Again 5
Phage 4
The Cloud 4
Eye of the Needle 7
Ex Post Facto 4
Emanations 3
Prime Factors 7
State of Flux 6
Heroes and Demons 5
Cathexis 4
Faces 5
Jetrel 6
Learning Curve 6

The more I analyze Prime Factors the more I appreciate it, that's why I gave it a 7 out of 10, making it the second best episode of season one behind Eye of the Needle.
So, based on my ratings, how do you think I will respond to the later seasons?
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Old December 6 2011, 05:06 AM   #24
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Avoid nothing.

The painful episodes are wonderful.
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Old December 6 2011, 07:50 AM   #25
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Lynx wrote: View Post
As for the ratings in the post above this one, how can season 6 and 4 have so high ratings? And why are the excellent seasons 2 and 3 in the bottom of the league?
Well let's just compare the first five episodes from S2, S3, S4 and S6

Episode 1:
The 37's vs Basics Part II vs Scorpion Part II vs Equinox Part II

S2 & S3: The 37's was implausible and frankly stupid and Basics Part II was a dreadful end to to the Kazon arc and a total anticlimax.
S4 & S6 Both Scorpion and Equinox Part II admittedly were inferior to their Part I, but they were miles ahead of the "37s".

Episode 2
Initiations vs Flashback vs The Gift vs Survival Instinct

S2 & S3: Inititations made me want to tear my hair out with boredom and Flashback was a complete mess that is embarrassing when compared to DS9' "Trials and Tribble-ations.
S4 & S6: I didn't want to see you know who go either, but I still feel "The Gift" was well written and emotional and kept my interest unlike "Initiations". Likewise "Survival Instinct" had an emotional story to tell and it was well written, interesting and had a satisfying conclusion unlike its season 3 counterpart "Flashback".

Episode 3
Projections vs The Chute vs Day of Honor vs Barge of the Dead

S2 & S3: I would classify both these episodes as good actually, I enjoyed them both very much
S4 & S6: "Day of Honor" is nothing very special, equally as good as the "Chute" and probably just a bit less good than "Projections". "Barge of the Dead" however is my 2nd favorite Trek episode of all time, no Voyager episode compares with it for me

Episode 4
Elogium vs The Swarm vs Nemesis vs Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy

S2 & S3: Both episodes were fairly mediocre to me. "Elogium" had Kes which is always a plus for me, but the writing just wasn't that great. And "The Swarm" had a faceless, boring enemy and techno-babble laden subplot. Not thrilling stuff
S4 & S6: "Nemesis" wasn't streets ahead of "The Swarm" but "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy" was one of the most creative and funny comedy Trek episodes ever and blows the rest out of the water

Episode 5
Non Sequitur vs False Profits vs Revulsion vs Alice

S2 & S3: "Non Sequitur was mediocre", but "False Profits" was just abysmal on every level.
S4 & S6: Not great episodes here either, but both episodes are still superior to the painfully unfunny "False Profits" and bland "Non Sequitur"

So yeah, overall I think that Season 2 and Season 3 were outclassed by quite a bit by Season 4 and Season 6 in terms of writing. I don't necessarily think Season 2 and Season 3 were full of TERRIBLE episodes, but there was a lot of mediocrity, albeit watchable mediocrity, going on there.
And besides that, as I said, I do appreciate S2 and S3 a bit more than my analysis may show, as I liked the atmosphere/balanced characterization of them more than later seasons.

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
Phage 4
Eye of the Needle 7
Emanations 3
Prime Factors 7
State of Flux 6
Faces 5
Jetrel 6

So, based on my ratings, how do you think I will respond to the later seasons?
I think you'll probably hate watching this show? I've never seen someone give HARSHER scores than TheGodBen did in his "A hater revists Voyager thread" (here http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=82112)
Your reviews scores are also quite a lot lower than "Jammer" from www.jammersreviews.com who was also pretty harsh on the show. Your review scores seem comparable with sfdebris who hates the show, so at this rate, you probably will too!

It makes me wonder what kind of quality you're expecting exactly and what kind of scale you're using when you give an episode like "Phage" 4/10 and Faces "5/10".
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Old December 6 2011, 08:07 AM   #26
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Janeway/Seven centred plots became pretty boring for me and I skipped a lot of that.

I like a lot of Season 4 though, particularly episodes which featured other characters.

I went to

http://www.geos.tv/index.php/index?sid=184&warn=voy

and only download episodes rated 8.0 or higher, with plots that interested me.
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Old December 6 2011, 01:50 PM   #27
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Re: Does It Get Better???

The good episodes are great if you watch the shittier episodes too.

Which makes the actually great episodes outstanding.

It's all about contrast.
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Old December 6 2011, 02:19 PM   #28
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I only watched the first couple of seasons back in the 1990s and my wife (who enjoyed recent watches of TNG and DS9) & I decided to give it another crack. Gave it up at the episode "Resistance" (about episode 27ish...).

I like the concept of Voyager. I like the first handful of episodes when there was potential. But I just can't invest time in this series. Knowing bits and pieces from upcoming seasons, and other opinions I've read, kind of reaffirms my position that me and Voyager just "aren't meant to be".
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Old December 6 2011, 06:41 PM   #29
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Re: Does It Get Better???

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
Phage 4
Eye of the Needle 7
Emanations 3
Prime Factors 7
State of Flux 6
Faces 5
Jetrel 6

So, based on my ratings, how do you think I will respond to the later seasons?
I think you'll probably hate watching this show? I've never seen someone give HARSHER scores than TheGodBen did in his "A hater revists Voyager thread" (here http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=82112)
Your reviews scores are also quite a lot lower than "Jammer" from www.jammersreviews.com who was also pretty harsh on the show. Your review scores seem comparable with sfdebris who hates the show, so at this rate, you probably will too!

It makes me wonder what kind of quality you're expecting exactly and what kind of scale you're using when you give an episode like "Phage" 4/10 and Faces "5/10".
Here's my scale:

10-9: Perfect, or near perfect. One of the best Star Trek episodes ever.
7-8: Great! Not as perfect as it could be, but nonetheless a very, very enjoyable episode. No real complaints.
5-6: Good. Not one of the best episodes ever, but very good. Some minor nitpicks or quibbles, but overall a fine, average episode.
3-4: Below Average. Some issues here and there that seriously affect my enjoyment of the episode, but also some redeeming qualities that make it worthwhile. Not bad, but not good either.
1-2: Poor. An episode full of schlock that's hardly worthwhile.

5 out of 10 looks bad on paper, but it really isn't a bad score according to my scale.

To give you an idea of rated other Trek seasons, here are my ratings for TNG season 7:

Descent P2 5
Liaisons 6
Interface 5
Gambit P1/2 8
Phantasms 5
Dark Page 3
Attached 6
Force of Nature 3
Inheritance 5
Parallels 9
The Pegasus 7
Homeward 5
Sub Rosa 4
Lower Decks 7
Thine Own Self 7
Masks 3
Eye of the Beholder 5
Genesis 4
Journey’s End 8
Firstborn 6
Bloodlines 4
Emergence 5
Preemptive Strike 9
All Good Things P1/2 9
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Old December 6 2011, 11:12 PM   #30
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Re: Does It Get Better???

What other program has all these basic qualifications?
Their is science daring-do, top notch adventure and screen graphics, women in rut running from one end of the screen to the other, advanced conjectural ethics, super quantum electro-dynamics. This is all here to serve the minds-eye.
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