Can Data only receive order from Riker (& up) ?

DynV · December 5 2011, 12:02 PM

I never noticed before that Crusher (Beverly) outranked Data as she's seldomly commanding. Thine Own Self (7x16), Troi (Deanna) become a commander and although it was pretty clear it was just a part-time thing, it got me wondering now that she joined Crusher outranking Data, can either of them give him an order?

To me, a second officer means that only the first and the one in charge (captain) can give him an order ; additionally those further up the ranks (admirals, etc.). Is there like a condition in the ranks? Before considering the rank, one must check the ship officer order (1st, 2nd, ...) ? Is there a precise set of condition?

Thank you kindly

Tiberius · December 5 2011, 12:17 PM

Technically, yes, anyone with a higher rank than data can give him an order.

But given that we've seen Picard follow "orders" from Data (such as in "Hero Worship" when data told Picard to lower the shields), I think Data would do the same.

Scifiman · December 5 2011, 12:20 PM

Yes they could. Also, Tasha had no problems getting Data to do things for her.

Scifiman · December 5 2011, 12:23 PM

Does anyone here write Star Trek TNG Novels? I did. Want to read it?

Squiggy · December 5 2011, 04:29 PM

A higher rank telling a lower rank what to do: order
A lower rank telling a higher rank what to do: suggestion

BillJ · December 5 2011, 05:16 PM

The Festivus Toad wrote:

I engaged in intercourse with your spouse or significant other.

Now that's psychiatry!

TheSeeker · December 5 2011, 06:25 PM

Scifiman wrote:

Yes they could. Also, Tasha had no problems getting Data to do things for her.

Using multiple techniques.

doubleohfive · December 5 2011, 06:47 PM

Crusher outranked everyone on the ship in the sense that she was the chief medical officer and could order anyone around if it pertained to their health and well being.

Picard and Riker were obviously the top two people on the ship. Having Crusher and Troi holding commanders' pips complicates things as yes, they are commanders in rank but not by full-time position.

Data, who as one of his primary functions aboard the Enterprise was as its second officer, would appear to be the default #3 aboard ship, despite the fact that Crusher was always a commander during the series as was Troi near the end. So its a question of position and context.

Romulans are attacking and Picard and Riker are stuck on the holodeck blissfully unaware as they romanticize about jazz and women with a knockout in a computer generated gin joint: Data is the ideal person for command.

A crazy plague is taking over the ship and incapacitating the crew by basically getting them drunk off their asses: Crusher would be the person to default to in order to cure everyone.

You would, I think, never see a situation where Crusher or Troi would pull rank on Data after his years of experience just for shits and giggles. Note also that Data always, ALWAYS referred to the two by their titles of "Doctor" and "Counselor" and would likely have maintained this formality should they be in command.

TheSeeker · December 5 2011, 07:25 PM

That raises an interesting question. Do officers in the military who are doctors get referred to by their rank or simply as Dr.?

milo bloom · December 5 2011, 08:02 PM

doubleohfive wrote:

Crusher outranked everyone on the ship in the sense that she was the chief medical officer and could order anyone around if it pertained to their health and well being.

Picard and Riker were obviously the top two people on the ship. Having Crusher and Troi holding commanders' pips complicates things as yes, they are commanders in rank but not by full-time position.

Data, who as one of his primary functions aboard the Enterprise was as its second officer, would appear to be the default #3 aboard ship, despite the fact that Crusher was always a commander during the series as was Troi near the end. So its a question of position and context.

Romulans are attacking and Picard and Riker are stuck on the holodeck blissfully unaware as they romanticize about jazz and women with a knockout in a computer generated gin joint: Data is the ideal person for command.

A crazy plague is taking over the ship and incapacitating the crew by basically getting them drunk off their asses: Crusher would be the person to default to in order to cure everyone.

You would, I think, never see a situation where Crusher or Troi would pull rank on Data after his years of experience just for shits and giggles. Note also that Data always, ALWAYS referred to the two by their titles of "Doctor" and "Counselor" and would likely have maintained this formality should they be in command.

Still, even in the bolded situation, the chief medical officer may still be in charge of the medical situation, but you still want a command or support person in charge of the ship to take care of all of the rest of the things going on.

----------------------------------------

Tiberius, regarding your example from "Hero Worship", the following is a better explanation.

The Festivus Toad wrote:

A higher rank telling a lower rank what to do: order
A lower rank telling a higher rank what to do: suggestion

Picard could have still ignored Data's "suggestion" of lowering the shields, but at his own peril. One of the things you learn about command is learning when to blindly trust a subordinate.

Squiggy · December 5 2011, 08:27 PM

milo bloom wrote:

The Festivus Toad wrote:

A higher rank telling a lower rank what to do: order
A lower rank telling a higher rank what to do: suggestion

Picard could have still ignored Data's "suggestion" of lowering the shields, but at his own peril. One of the things you learn about command is learning when to blindly trust a subordinate.

One tends to always blindly trust Data.

doubleohfive · December 5 2011, 09:34 PM

The Festivus Toad wrote:

milo bloom wrote:

The Festivus Toad wrote:

A higher rank telling a lower rank what to do: order
A lower rank telling a higher rank what to do: suggestion

Picard could have still ignored Data's "suggestion" of lowering the shields, but at his own peril. One of the things you learn about command is learning when to blindly trust a subordinate.

One tends to always blindly trust Data.

Geordi did.

BAZINGA!

Ar-Pharazon · December 5 2011, 11:42 PM

TheSeeker wrote:

That raises an interesting question. Do officers in the military who are doctors get referred to by their rank or simply as Dr.?

M*A*S*H would be a good guide on this. It depends how gung-ho the particular officer is.

Are they in it to be a doctor or military?

Maybe less "military" in 24th century Starfleet though.

7thsealord · December 6 2011, 01:19 AM

Ar-Pharazon wrote:

TheSeeker wrote:

That raises an interesting question. Do officers in the military who are doctors get referred to by their rank or simply as Dr.?

M*A*S*H would be a good guide on this. It depends how gung-ho the particular officer is.

Are they in it to be a doctor or military?

Maybe less "military" in 24th century Starfleet though.

Would also depend on the Doctor's actual position or job within the organization as well.

For example, in 'All Good Things', future-Beverley had become the Captain of a Star Fleet vessel. As such, she was addressed as "Captain" rather than "Doctor" - noting also that there were probably a bunch of other doctors on her ship anyhow.

Dr. Crusher · December 6 2011, 02:24 AM

The Festivus Toad wrote:

One tends to always blindly trust Data.

"Cause and Effect" is case in point on this one.

December 5 2011, 12:02 PM	#1
DynV Ensign Location: Montreal, Canada	Can Data only receive order from Riker (& up) ? I never noticed before that Crusher (Beverly) outranked Data as she's seldomly commanding. Thine Own Self (7x16), Troi (Deanna) become a commander and although it was pretty clear it was just a part-time thing, it got me wondering now that she joined Crusher outranking Data, can either of them give him an order? To me, a second officer means that only the first and the one in charge (captain) can give him an order ; additionally those further up the ranks (admirals, etc.). Is there like a condition in the ranks? Before considering the rank, one must check the ship officer order (1st, 2nd, ...) ? Is there a precise set of condition? Thank you kindly

December 5 2011, 12:17 PM	#2
Tiberius Commodore	Re: Can Data only receive order from Riker (& up) ? Technically, yes, anyone with a higher rank than data can give him an order. But given that we've seen Picard follow "orders" from Data (such as in "Hero Worship" when data told Picard to lower the shields), I think Data would do the same. __________________ The Best of Both Worlds eBook \| Every episode of Trek in viewing order Tiberius

December 5 2011, 12:23 PM	#4
Scifiman Cadet Location: Snellville,Georgia	Re: Can Data only receive order from Riker (& up) ? Does anyone here write Star Trek TNG Novels? I did. Want to read it?

December 5 2011, 04:29 PM	#5
Squiggy Shit Supreme Location: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.	Re: Can Data only receive order from Riker (& up) ? A higher rank telling a lower rank what to do: order A lower rank telling a higher rank what to do: suggestion __________________ ENOUGH OF THIS TURGID BASH WANKERY!

December 5 2011, 06:47 PM	#8
doubleohfive Fleet Admiral Location: Los Angeles, CA	Re: Can Data only receive order from Riker (& up) ? Crusher outranked everyone on the ship in the sense that she was the chief medical officer and could order anyone around if it pertained to their health and well being. Picard and Riker were obviously the top two people on the ship. Having Crusher and Troi holding commanders' pips complicates things as yes, they are commanders in rank but not by full-time position. Data, who as one of his primary functions aboard the Enterprise was as its second officer, would appear to be the default #3 aboard ship, despite the fact that Crusher was always a commander during the series as was Troi near the end. So its a question of position and context. Romulans are attacking and Picard and Riker are stuck on the holodeck blissfully unaware as they romanticize about jazz and women with a knockout in a computer generated gin joint: Data is the ideal person for command. A crazy plague is taking over the ship and incapacitating the crew by basically getting them drunk off their asses: Crusher would be the person to default to in order to cure everyone. You would, I think, never see a situation where Crusher or Troi would pull rank on Data after his years of experience just for shits and giggles. Note also that Data always, ALWAYS referred to the two by their titles of "Doctor" and "Counselor" and would likely have maintained this formality should they be in command. __________________ "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it." -Voltaire

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December 5 2011, 12:20 PM	#3
Scifiman Cadet Location: Snellville,Georgia	Re: Can Data only receive order from Riker (& up) ? Yes they could. Also, Tasha had no problems getting Data to do things for her.

December 5 2011, 07:25 PM	#9
TheSeeker Vice Admiral Location: New York, NY	Re: Can Data only receive order from Riker (& up) ? That raises an interesting question. Do officers in the military who are doctors get referred to by their rank or simply as Dr.?