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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old December 3 2011, 02:58 AM   #436
DGCatAniSiri
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

defiantfan wrote: View Post
The only reason I can halfway stand that episode is because the actress who plays the love interest ended up on Eureka.
She was also the voice of Eliza Maza on Gargoyles, so I tune out what she's talking about and picture her having a conversation with Goliath instead of Sisko.
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Old December 3 2011, 04:59 AM   #437
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

defiantfan wrote: View Post
The only reason I can halfway stand that episode is because the actress who plays the love interest ended up on Eureka.
The best part of the episode is Richard Kiley's voice. I could seriously listen to that man read a phone book.
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Old December 3 2011, 05:28 AM   #438
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Sisko's romance with whatsherface was more contrived than the falling in love in Moulin Rouge, and without the great songs. (I just watched it for the first time, sue me )
Ah, Moulin Rouge. I watched it with my first girlfriend while building myself up mentally for my first kiss which happened later that night, so I was a little distracted and barely paid attention to the plot. Something about Obi-Wan Kenobi and a windmill, if I remember correctly.

I kinda like the idea of Odo meeting himself for the first time though. What would Odo think of himself?
If Odo was split into two equal halves, would we get two mini-Odos?
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Old December 3 2011, 05:19 PM   #439
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I hate to admit it, but I don't think that Second Sight is all that bad, though it's not a four or five star episode by any stretch of the imagination. It probably could have been improved by giving Seyetik more complexity and humanity rather than simply portraying him as a pompous overbearing jerk who laughed way too hard at his own jokes. Sisko's instant infatuation with Fenna I can accept. You just have to keep in mind that the poor guy likely hadn't been laid in four years and that Fenna was smoking hot.

The view of the station from the upper docking pylon was a nice touch.
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Old December 3 2011, 05:42 PM   #440
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I actually found Seyetik amusing rather than annoying...at least I think I did, I haven't seen the episode in quite some time. I love people who are full of themselves as long as they have a sense of humor about it.

As for the rest of the episode...eh....
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Old December 4 2011, 05:15 PM   #441
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Sanctuary (**½)

I've never understood the level of hate this episode gets. There are problems at the beginning and the end, but I liked the middle of the story. This is a genuine refugee crisis which is something that hasn't been shown on Trek before, and the scale of it (3 million people in tens of thousands of ships) adds to the feeling that DS9 is larger in scope than TNG. In fact, this is the first time that we see an actual fleet around DS9, something that becomes more familiar as the show progresses. I also liked the depiction of the Skrreeans as a matriarchal society. It's way, way better than the attempt in TNG's Angel One, where the women were muscular and domineering while the men were meek and wore perfume. At least here the women act like women and not men with boobs.

The start of the episode is pointless, it's like as if the episode was running 5 minutes short so they added some scenes where the universal translator wasn't working to pad things out. It doesn't really add to the story, it's a needless complication that gets in the way of what the episode is about. The bigger problem is the ending where the Skrreeans decide that they want to live on Bajor and set up farms and stuff. By itself, that's not such a big deal, it's the way that Haneek and the other Skrreeans act as if living on Bajor was their birthright because of some prophesy about a world called Kentanna. What sort of people expect to have the right to live on someone else's land because of prophesy? You know, other than the Israelis? Once again, this plot point feels needless and tacked on, but this time it's to create drama rather than to fill time. And it doesn't really work to create drama as one side (the Bajorans) sound reasonable and the other side (the Skrreeans) sound like spoiled children. As a result, the supposedly tragic ending doesn't work as it comes across as that kid's own damned fault.

Another reference to the Dominion here, but that's all it is, a reference. They're not a part of the story as they were in Rules of Acquisition, they could have called the conquering aliens the Bellendites and it would have been the same story. Still, it's a nice reference for those that are rewatching the show.
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Old December 4 2011, 06:46 PM   #442
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I actually really like this episode in retrospect.

I liked the reference to the Dominion here. For starters, the reference was a bit ominous when you think about what was said. The Skreeans were invaded and conquered by another alien race. That race was in turn destroyed by the Dominion. It tells you something right there about the Dominion in that not only were they willing to destroy another civilization, but that the Skreeans felt no sense of relief in having their tormentors destroyed.

In some ways both sides of the discussion between the Bajorans and the Skreeans have a point. The Skreeans were farmers and may have been able to help the Bajorans. On the other side the Bajorans really do have their own problems to think of. What was missing in the discussion was what role the Federation would be willing to play one way or another. It was rather clear that the Federation was going to help the Skreean resettlement effort one way or another. Its a good bet that the world that they settled on was in Federation space and that Starfleet was going to provide some material assistance. Therefore it seemed like the concerns of the Provisional Government could have been addressed by gaining some assurances from the Federation (of course, as I pointed out in my own thread on this topic, the Federation is on shaky ground here sense they should be doing more to help Bajor ANYWAY).
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Old December 4 2011, 07:04 PM   #443
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

One aspect I really like about the episode is the musical connection. Showing how much healing Bajor still needs. It is an interesting thought-provoking episode to be sure.
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Old December 4 2011, 07:58 PM   #444
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

defiantfan wrote: View Post
One aspect I really like about the episode is the musical connection. Showing how much healing Bajor still needs. It is an interesting thought-provoking episode to be sure.
The musical connection wanted to make me slash my wrists! Who is this Bajoran guy? And what is so important about him? As secondary (or fill-in or even tertiary as I like to call them) characters go, what was his point? It was so painful having to listen to that naff music, perhaps if he played the Lord of the Rings theme (you know that Hobbit theme) it would have been awesome (and if you must know bring a genuine tear from my eye)...

Sanctuary is just about good as an episode, and there are rough patches and a few forced moments (Bajoran flute player...) I like the ending because it isn't all happy clappy. The Skreeans did have a point about their farming, they perhaps could have cultivated that continent. But the Bajorans were also right as well; they couldn't risk three million Skreeans starving to death because Bajor could barely feed itself let alone the Skreeans.

I like how the Skreean leader became very... lukewarm (like a sort of cold disappointment) towards Kira, and though the Skreeans were brushed away by the episodic brush, at least the ending was bittersweet and botched in a good way. TNG wouldn't have done that, but DS9 did, so this further bolsters the episode's goodness.

God, if TheGodBen doesn't give the next episode, Rivals, a rating of 0 then strike me down like the ending of Macbeth!
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Old December 4 2011, 08:07 PM   #445
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I don't like Sanctuary. It's probably better than Melora and Second Sight, but that's damning with faint praise.

I think the universal translator is one of those things that shouldn't be drawn attention to, as essentially is magic. If you're going to make a successful story in the vein of Darmok, then fair enough, but I don't know why the plotline was tacked onto this episode. It just added to the mess, really.

I didn't like how the Skreeans got their noses bent out of shape about not being allowed to settle on Bajor. Sure it's disappointing, but geez guys move on, it's not your land. Just because the Bajorans don't want you living with them as they're only just getting over sixty years of occupation, doesn't make them wrong. I'd totally lost sympathy with them by the end of the episode, so didn't feel anything at all for the forced drama at the end with the dead son.

I also hated the Skreeans makeup, which is a very strange thing to hate. I think it's just something that stuck from when I was watching it when I was younger.
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Old December 5 2011, 12:33 AM   #446
Admiral Shran
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Seven Swans a Swimming wrote: View Post
I also hated the Skreeans makeup, which is a very strange thing to hate. I think it's just something that stuck from when I was watching it when I was younger.
I'll give them credit for not just slapping something on the Skreeans foreheads, but it's still pretty.... distracting.

Like others have said, my biggest problem with Sanctuary is that the Skreeans act like spoiled children. And why are they so convinced that Bajor is Kentanna anyway? For all they know, Draylon II could be it. After all, isn't it also on the "other side of the Eye of the Universe"? I mean, jeez, even Bajoran prophecies are more open to interpretation.

Another problem I have is the Bajoran flute player. In that little side-plot he and Kira act like spoiled children (seems to be a theme for this episode). Apparently, asking such a great artist like him to play music appropriate to the surroundings is a travesty in Kira's mind. Lady, he's playing in a bar, what do you expect?! Yes, it's sad that he's not playing in a music hall, but be happy that he can play anywhere. Get over yourself.

Now, the episode does do some good things. For example, the Jake/Nog storyline is reasonably enjoyable. The scene where Quark breaks up the fight between Nog and the Skreean boy is very nice. And I like the reference to the Dominion. Rules of Acquisition showed us that they are an economic power to reckon with and Sanctuary shows us that they're a military power to reckon with. It's just a small reference, but it does add to the fabric of who they are.

I'd say two or two-and-a-half stars is about right.
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Old December 5 2011, 04:36 PM   #447
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Rivals (*½)

Never before on DS9, and never again, has an episode relied so much on a prop that fails to deliver. I'm not much of a gambler, but can I understand the thrill of a game of blackjack, or roulette, or horse-racing. I can understand why people bet money on those games knowing that the odds are stacked against them. I cannot understand the thrill of pressing a button a a weird-looking sphere that either lights up or doesn't based on its own internal logic that nobody understands. Why would anyone bet money on such a thing? Why would people do so in such numbers that they would be willing to abandon Quark's bar and his much more entertaining dabo table? For this episode to have any hope of working it required those gambling devices to look and act in an interesting way, which they don't (at least not on the surface) and that exposes all the flaws in the episode.

I don't like the concept of a device that alters luck by spinning neutrinos in a certain way (let's just leave aside the fact that neutrinos can only ever spin one way anyway), but if you're going to address such a concept then don't do it in an episode that's not really about anything. Starfleet has just made one of the most important scientific discoveries of the age, the fact that luck can be altered using an easily replicated device that fits in the hand. With some more studying of the devices they may be able to control luck, which would have been highly useful during the war. Just put those devices on every ship in the fleet and give the crew some good luck before sending them into battle, all the enemy weapon's will miss and the war will be over without that messy business with the Romulans. Job done.

All that being said, I do have a soft-spot for episodes like this that aren't really about anything. If this had just been an episode about Quark and a business rival while O'Brien and Bashir play space-racquetball, it would have been better off. In fact, it's the O'Brien/Bashir stuff that rescues the episode a little for me, it's another step on the road to them becoming BFFs. It's not their best outing together, and I'm not sure why any punter would be interested in the outcome of a game between the two, but it's light, inoffensive fun. Also, we get to see O'Brien's flabby moobs, and what heterosexual man wouldn't be tempted by such a treat?
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Old December 5 2011, 06:11 PM   #448
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Also, we get to see O'Brien's flabby moobs, and what heterosexual man wouldn't be tempted by such a treat?
Is it time to bring out the graph? You know the one...
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Old December 5 2011, 06:36 PM   #449
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Credit to NCC-1701 for this piece of brilliance:



As you can see, O'Brien's moobs are so sexy that viewers turn off the TV in significant numbers in order to engage in sexual acts.
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Old December 5 2011, 07:01 PM   #450
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

to NCC-1701.

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Like others have said, my biggest problem with Sanctuary is that the Skreeans act like spoiled children. And why are they so convinced that Bajor is Kentanna anyway? For all they know, Draylon II could be it. After all, isn't it also on the "other side of the Eye of the Universe"? I mean, jeez, even Bajoran prophecies are more open to interpretation.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I always thought the Skreean characterization was quite clever, for a given value of "clever", and that they were supposed to be rather unreasonable. If we look at how the male Skreean act - stubborn, difficult to control, bickering over petty matters - I think you can carry some of it over to the females, who are after all the same species and culture, only more level-headed and self-controlled, presumably due to their lacking whatever hormonal mix causes the males to be so troublesome. That and they have greater responsibilities, and clearly take them seriously. The females are quite stubborn and petty too, only in a different (more elevated?) way. Once they've gotten an idea or a desire, they seem dedicated to keeping it, and rather belligerant and abrasive when someone then tells them they can't have it. Similar to the males grabbing at shop displays and trinkets and refusing to put them down again. Only the females do it with matters of actual importance given their more expansive worldview, greater responsibilities, and heightened levels of self-control. They do it with homelands and prophecies rather than with ornaments and shop displays. I liked that because it seemed convincing that the two sexes were the same species, the same society, with similar cultural and psychological traits, only expressed in different ways due to their differing biologies and social roles.

While the episode isn't too popular, I'd have liked it if the Skreea turned up again, in minor roles - as advisors on the Dominion, perhaps? (though I'm not sure how much they really know; at the very least they might offer some pointers on where to find out more?)
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