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Old December 1 2011, 01:08 AM   #331
Scout101
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Thanks Hartzilla, got the Aegis set and the Delta Flyer safely tucked away before the F2P build tanks everything.

Tried to craft whatever I could, and spent as many emblems/marks/whatever as made sense, so we'll see what the new build brings. I expect everything I bought/built will be nerfed by morning, if the Tribble builds have been any indication...
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Old December 1 2011, 01:09 AM   #332
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Yep, I'm Richard@jscout33 right now. And thanks, Hartzilla, will figure out what it costs and pop stuff over to you. I'm on right now, but all's quiet in the fleet...
GladI was able to help out.

On a slightly unrelated note I seem to have the same lag problem with STO that I did in TOR, which means it is my internet connection that's the problem, which means I'm good to go on that front when I fix it.
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Old December 1 2011, 01:17 AM   #333
Bird of Prey
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

I am trying to craft the aegis set for one of my other toons and all I need is one methogenic particle trace. There are 5 in the fleet bank, but I don't have the rights to withdraw one. Can anybody help me out please ?
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Old December 1 2011, 01:28 AM   #334
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Bird of Prey wrote: View Post
I am trying to craft the aegis set for one of my other toons and all I need is one methogenic particle trace. There are 5 in the fleet bank, but I don't have the rights to withdraw one. Can anybody help me out please ?
Try it now.
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Old December 1 2011, 01:42 AM   #335
Bird of Prey
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Bird of Prey wrote: View Post
I am trying to craft the aegis set for one of my other toons and all I need is one methogenic particle trace. There are 5 in the fleet bank, but I don't have the rights to withdraw one. Can anybody help me out please ?
Try it now.
No luck. On both of my fleet toons (names in my sig) I get a message that I do not have permission to withdraw from that tab. If you could even mail one of those toons a particle trace, I'd appreciate it
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Old December 1 2011, 02:14 AM   #336
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Bird of Prey wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Bird of Prey wrote: View Post
I am trying to craft the aegis set for one of my other toons and all I need is one methogenic particle trace. There are 5 in the fleet bank, but I don't have the rights to withdraw one. Can anybody help me out please ?
Try it now.
No luck. On both of my fleet toons (names in my sig) I get a message that I do not have permission to withdraw from that tab. If you could even mail one of those toons a particle trace, I'd appreciate it
There I mailed one to you.
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Old December 1 2011, 02:55 AM   #337
Bird of Prey
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Bird of Prey wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

Try it now.
No luck. On both of my fleet toons (names in my sig) I get a message that I do not have permission to withdraw from that tab. If you could even mail one of those toons a particle trace, I'd appreciate it
There I mailed one to you.
Thanks. I tried to add a couple of particle traces to the fleet bank, but couldn't do that either - so I sent them to you. Thanks again. Now all my current toons have the Aegis set.
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Old December 1 2011, 02:57 AM   #338
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

I understand the idea behind the locked tabs for larger fleets, but not really a big fan of it in our smaller, less active fleet. We're all welcome to donate to the fleet, but kinda annoying that anything good is restricted to the couple fleet officers we have. Makes sense to restrict lower-level recruits, but been playing just about since launch, and only with this fleet, and 8+ years on the BBS, why am I locked out again?

Convenient for the multiple toons of the fleet leaders, but not as much for us mid-level members. Honestly, I don't use the bank much because of the restrictions on anything good. Used to put more in back when it was more free-flowing, but now just feels like a donation to the people that already are doing just fine. Point of a fleet bank is to be able to share the wealth when you get stuff, and grab a little help when you need it as well, no?

Along those lines, what do you actually have to DO to get promoted from Chief to any of the lower officer ranks? LTS, played for almost 2 years on and off, donate to the banks when I get stuff I don't want (except that more and more tabs are restricted), help people with missions when I'm online, have tried to set up events every once in a while, etc. Other than being one of the guys that signed up to the Fleet first, not sure what else can be done there. Disappointing that TrekBBS is so under-represented on STO anyway, would be nice if the fleet wasn't so dead...
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Old December 1 2011, 03:51 AM   #339
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

The Tribble build is going to Holodeck tomorrow morning, between 7am and 10am PST. I hope everyone is done with last-minute crafting.
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Old December 1 2011, 08:51 AM   #340
Timelord Victorious
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Not done with crafting, but I still have a couple toons who need to invest their emblems into useful gear before they strip us of 30% buying power.
Good thing, I have the day off.
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Old December 1 2011, 01:32 PM   #341
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Scout101 wrote: View Post
I understand the idea behind the locked tabs for larger fleets, but not really a big fan of it in our smaller, less active fleet. We're all welcome to donate to the fleet, but kinda annoying that anything good is restricted to the couple fleet officers we have. Makes sense to restrict lower-level recruits, but been playing just about since launch, and only with this fleet, and 8+ years on the BBS, why am I locked out again?

Convenient for the multiple toons of the fleet leaders, but not as much for us mid-level members. Honestly, I don't use the bank much because of the restrictions on anything good. Used to put more in back when it was more free-flowing, but now just feels like a donation to the people that already are doing just fine. Point of a fleet bank is to be able to share the wealth when you get stuff, and grab a little help when you need it as well, no?

Along those lines, what do you actually have to DO to get promoted from Chief to any of the lower officer ranks? LTS, played for almost 2 years on and off, donate to the banks when I get stuff I don't want (except that more and more tabs are restricted), help people with missions when I'm online, have tried to set up events every once in a while, etc. Other than being one of the guys that signed up to the Fleet first, not sure what else can be done there. Disappointing that TrekBBS is so under-represented on STO anyway, would be nice if the fleet wasn't so dead...
I realize that.
That's why I have been thinking about what to change lately.
The reason for the restrictions is simply security. It's not a matter of privilige.
If you look for it on the STO forum there are several threads raging about fleet bank clear outs by thiefs who do their best to get into the good grace of fleet mates to get full access and the next day, the fleet is empty.
These things happen and Cryptic won't or can't do anything about that. They gave us the tools to prevent this sort of thing happenening.
Now we had things a little strict perhaps and could losen things up, so you don't have to ask everytime for a high quality item.
Which you could always do, btw, that one bank tab is labled officer deposit, yes, but it really just means officers are the only one with direct access, NOT that only officers are allowed to have what's in there.
It's just a matter of bad communication. Everything I post in here will get quickly buried under the newer posts.
This is the matter with a lot of general fleet information.
Perhaps there is a way to edit a general fleet guideline into the very first post of the fleet thread? Can a mod confirm this?

Now, since a lot of changes are imminent anyway in the game, it's as good a time as any to reorganize things in the fleet as well.

My philosophy is not really to have a system of rank and achievement, where you donate X items and are y months a member to get to the top.

My general idea was to have new recruits start with restrictions to the bank indeed, it would be stupid to not have that, since effectively everyone can invite anyone into the fleet. And it's opportunity that makes thiefs sometimes...

Then there is the normal member status, which we named Crewman at the moment.
This is the everyday rank which represents already ull membership with bank access, a fleet uniform to show colors and everything.
if you are a Chief, you ae not that much different, it just shows that you have played to endgame and know your stuff.
A normal member can always identify the game veterans (which ultimately everyone would become eventually).
And here it stops basically.
There should not be elitism that can be achieved through grinding and putting lots of stuff into the bank or other stuff.

Officers in the fleet are not supposed to be superiors to everyone else, more the opposite in fact.
Everyone who volunteers to be an officer is showing a willingness to take up responsibilities for the fleet and it's members.
That would range from helping others to level, get certain equipment, helping with crafting, running and leading PvP and STF teams, giving general advice and having an eye on and maintaining the fleet bank.
Some of these require certain priviliges like extended (or in Trek's case as quartermaster unlimited) access.
It's ok to use these priviliges for one's own benefit, but the forst reason for this is to administer to the fleet in a controlled manner.
Anyone who needs something out of the bank should and is encouraged to send a mail to us and he will receive his stuff asap. No one will ever say no.

Officers won't be officers for much longer, since this indeed describes a superiority.
my personal favorite as a replacement name is adjutant, but that can be open for discussion.

being an Adjutant (or whatever we will end up calling it) is a voluntary position, any full member can be one.
But we will take a look if it makes sense to "promote".
if only three coremember are only ever online we don't need a bunch of administrators, since there is nothing to administrate.
So having 50 members in the fleet and every single one ultimately becoming the highest "rank" short of leader (which will also be renamed) and no more regular members will never happen. That just doesn't make sense.

If you have a specialty in game however, that you feel could benefit the other players please let me know, and we will take a look if there is room for you to be a fleet adjutant.
For example, you are great at PvP and are tired of playing with PUGs all the time, you can be our PvP guy.
It would be helpful if you are more or less regularly online and are willing to motivate people and organize teams and PvP runs, maybe have a look out for tournaments with other fleets where we could participate.

You have fun crafting all the time, but have all the stuff you will ever need for yourself, great!
There are lots of people who don't yet, so help them, a member can send you a wishlist and material to craft what he needs. if he runs short there is always the fleet bank to donate the rest if available.
This also qualifies you for an administrative "job" in the fleet.

STF... same thing...

You are a foundry scout? Find the best missions that can be run i na team and organize a story event...

There are lots of stuff you could do for the fleet.

Real life prevents you from playing that much anymore? or you move on to other games? let someone else take over and switch roles, then become a regular member again...



So, had to get that of my chest. I hope everyone agrees with me here for the most part.
Details are open for discussion and please suggest better ideas if you have them.

Changes can then be done to the current fleet structure soon.
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Old December 1 2011, 03:32 PM   #342
Scout101
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Wasn't trying to stir up any trouble, it's just something that had been kinda annoying me lately. Last 8-9 months have been weird anyway, since Cryptic kinda abandoned the game, so hasn't been as much draw to play as often. Hopefully that'll pick back up.

But yeah, it's been kind of strange in a smaller fleet to have things locked down so hard. Great for the couple people that have access, restrictive for the rest of us. Since there's realistically only a dozen or so of us that actually play semi-regularly, having a big structure, different priviledges for the 'higher ups' has been odd, when it should really be more community feel for a small group. I'm sure no one would ever say no to giving out something in the bank (unless they put it in there to stash for their own alt), but since there's rarely anyone online in our fleet when i join in, not really anyone to ask. Seems most of the people that are officers in the fleet are also on European time, so unless you're pulling an all-nighter, no one's around when i pop in after work.

Obviously there needs to be bank limits to prevent thieves and whatnot, just think we've gone too far in basically locking everything except green gear to the couple officers. first off, EVERY tab should have limits on numbers of items (honestly, probably for everyone but the quartermaster). No one needs to remove more than, say 5 items a day from the bank. that pretty much prevents the thief situation alone. And whatever the introductory level of membership is, that should remain limited to the green stuff, with the caveat that you can ask for better stuff if someone else in the fleet is around.

My opinion is that pretty much everyone should have access to the rest, though. With the fleet so inactive in the first place, are officers really doing anything to justify being able to get the purple gear, data samples, and money in the first place? When trying to mail Hartzilla the parts to build the Aegis set last night, I was short a few data samples, and they were in the bank, but no one was around. Ended up having to go to the primary toon and buy them, mail them to the alt. Not a big deal, just annoying that they were there, but inaccessable. Damned data samples are expensive, but had to get it done that night to finish the crafting, and ran out of time to grind for them.

Instead of locking that section away, why not just more more strict rules on how many items you can pull in a day? 5 items in the green bin, X amount of dollars, 2-3 blue tab items, 1 purple item? Obviously quartermaster and leader wouldn't have those restrictions, and you'd have to still have a few 'upper level' people that would be online more often so they could pull things for someone if they needed something, but I'd rather see it lined up more that way. Still prevents the robbing, but makes it more accessable for real fleet users. Might see more action in the bank, too, rather than the static thing we've got going. When the green gear isn't really used often, and the good stuff is locked out, not a lot of giving and taking anymore.

As for a fleet reshuffle? Sure, maybe not a bad idea. Probably due for a reshuffling and simplification anyway. As for how, here's my suggestion:

Leader obviously, staff, members, and recruits. Not sure we need more divisions than that. Suppose you gotta go with a Trek feel, given that we're the TrekBBS fleet, so maybe you call them Fleet Admiral, Admiral, Officer, and Enlisted. If you want to add more protection, you add a 5th rank, Cadet.

Cadet would be a introductory thing, limited bank or fleet priviledges. 1-2 green items a day, maybe 1 blue thing, but basically gotta ask for anything decent in the bank. Wouldn't stay in that spot long, but it lets you try out people with the fleet without a ton of risk of raiding or anything.

Make Enlisted (participated in a few fleet events, helped out with leveling, etc), you've now got whatever the 'normal' fleet settings are, green tab bank rights for 5 or so items a day, limited blue tab rights (1-2 items a day), and ask for help with Purple items/data samples.

Officer rank would be for people that have been around in the fleet a while and appear to be helping/not abusing the bank. Enlisted members that participate in TrekBBS and/or are LTS members would get a quicker promotion. Officer would be the normal 'full member' rank, most people would get to that rank and stay. More fleet priviledges (ability to create fleet events, for exmaple, would be good), bank structure would be more like open green, 5 or so blue items, 1 or 2 purple items/day, not sure how to structure data samples, but should have decent access. Officers should probably have at least one toon at/near endgame and be decent/helpful. Basically, more priviledge (for bank and for creating events) than the current Chief position, but not wide open. Really this would be about where I'd like to be with regards to what I can do in a fleet.

The staff postion, Admirals, would be what you described as Adjuntant, would be the guys you go to when you want stuff from the bank. Should probably try and aim it so you've got a couple different time zones covered, so there's a chance someone's around. Shouldn't be a ton of these people, but enough to cover us. Can have the Quartermaster in that group, as well as a couple heavy crafters, people that want to help run events or be around to level players, run PvP, whatever. Essentially, the trusted power users. Fleet settings and bank would be essentially wide open, as they'd be expected to be trusted and contributing members, plus need to get into the bank to give to others.

Fleet Admiral would obviously be you, and wide open as you control the settings anyway. You'd essentially be acting as part of the Admiralty anyway, you'd just get the snazzy uniform for having the extra hassle of setting this stuff up (and probably being one of the heavier contributors to the bank anyway).

Anyway, that's my suggestion. Seems to structure things the way it feels they'd benefit the most people, and limit any risk of bank raiding. Just feel the current setup is more officer-centric, and way more limited for the normal 'full' member. probably got to look at the groupings too, as we haven't had any changes in a while, and you don't see many of the officers around much, which really limits things. And we've only had a couple fleet events in the last year, would be nice if more full members could create/run events. Not sure I see the downside in allowing more activity. If we can't be more active, might need to look at mergers...

Hopefully, when Cryptic gets moving again with content soon, activity will pick up a bit. Pretty depressing when I click the fleet roster tab and I'm always the only one there...
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Old December 1 2011, 04:35 PM   #343
Timelord Victorious
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

So we are pretty much on the same page her...

Hopefully Free to Play will fill up the normal member ranks a bit.
What we call them is really semantics...

So...
I never got around to sending you that Delta Flyer schematic, but you I understand you got that covered?

Spreading out fleet administrators across timezones would be a good thing, however atm I think the vast majority if the members is in fact in Europe...
So we really have to get the US side of things into second gear.
Normally Aelius, the actual fleet founder, covered the US pretty well, but he has been out of STO commission for awhile more or less.

I agree, setting fleet events should be opened up to all members.
That way everyone can set up when he'd liek to do specific things and others know when and where to join in.
Might help to generate some fleet activity.

What I'd really like would a full fleet assembly at some point after free to play.
To see where we actually are with active members and what people want out of the fleet.
That might prove difficult though, I suspect only the few usual suspects would show up.
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Old December 1 2011, 05:14 PM   #344
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

http://t.co/nQojSZOi

Release notes, if you haven't seen them yet.
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Old December 1 2011, 05:14 PM   #345
Scout101
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Yep, sounds like we've got the same idea, just a matter of doing some re-org. Really not too far off, just eliminating some officer ranks, giving full members (officers in my scheme) a little more access, and tweaking bank rights a bit. Ability for regular members to create events is crucial, especially since we're going to have to grind STFs a lot more for any of the new crap they're putting in.

And yeah, Hartzilla grabbed the DF spec for me while he was crafting my Aegis set, good to go there, thanks. Ran out of time to grind that on my alt toon, so nice to have that in the shuttlebay before the patch hits (today?).

We'll see how F2P goes, but would be nice to be more active. Which should happen a little on its own if they get around to giving us something to DO again. And definitely need some US representation in the Admiralty pool. Looks fine to you guys, you're all on together. Tough to find anyone around with full permissions once you guys go to bed, though...

Although no matter what, suspect you're right; probably won't be more than the usual 6-7 of us when we try to do anything anyway, so all just a thought exercise
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