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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old November 9 2011, 05:51 PM   #31
JRoss
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

Nearer than the Pah Wraiths?
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Old November 18 2011, 12:18 PM   #32
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

T'Girl wrote: View Post

As horror creatures go, it extremely hard to take the Remans seriously.

They look just like Count Orlok in Nosferatu, as a vampire a true horror creature. Star Wars copied him as well for a race in their last installment. The copyrights for the 90 years old movie have probably expired.
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Old November 21 2011, 11:38 AM   #33
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

Yes, Lore's Borg were scarier & more dangerous than the regular collective in my opinion, but not for the reasons you suggest

They were more dangerous, because they were rogue, & out of control, which made it easy for them to be manipulated by a strong mind like Lore. It's like they were the most hazardous WMD ever, & were ripe for the taking.

Frankly had it not been for Data getting control of himself, I could foresee a horrid future for the galaxy, wherein Lore, with the aid of Data, take over the Borg collective & conquer the whole damn galaxy, which was the REAL reason Lore wanted Data at his side. Data would be the only one who could stand in his way

Make no bones about it. Taking over that rogue Borg cube was not only the most fortuitous happenstance Lore had ever encountered, it was certainly his goal to use it as a launching pad to conquer the galaxy, in Hitleresque fashion

It's scarier simply because the Borg collective is an ominous unknown, but Lore is an all to well established evil, who's goal, ever since the days of the Crystalline Entity, was to decimate the Human race
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Old November 21 2011, 09:39 PM   #34
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Sandoval wrote: View Post
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The Borg are the nearest thing to the horror creatures in Trek...
Nearer than the Remans? I don't think so.
The Remans are clowns and failures. Their one shot at power and they backed the wrong horse (Shinzon), their lives were likely worst after the events of Nemesis than before.

As horror creatures go, it extremely hard to take the Remans seriously.

being failures and having worse lives after the events of the movie don't make them any less of a "horror" creatures, though. if anything it helps their case. Doesn't the horror creature usually die or get defeated at the end of the movie?? Not always but that is usually the case.

They were clearly based off of nosferatu, they were a shunned and tormented race and they live in dark scary caves. the direction was meant to make them seem creepy and scary, with heavy use of dimmed lighting and fog. they are definitely more "horror" than the borg as they appear in TNG, even though the borg are much more threatening (and cooler). I guess they became more "Horror-y" in first contact, and probably voyager too but i didn't watch most of that. But as far as the borg go in TNG the series (i.e. their conception/initial design), i wouldn't really rank them as "more horror" than the remans.
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Old November 25 2011, 04:46 AM   #35
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

Sorry, I just don't buy that the Borg who are assimialted look different to the Borg who are grown in maturation chambers. There's no reason to believe it apart from the difference in appearance between the pre-FC and post-FC Borg.

And even then, the idea is shot down by the fact that the FC style Borg are the type that has been assimilated as an adult (remember Ensign Lynch?), so that means that if the other look for the Borg is the "grown in a maturation chamber" kind, why did Locutus look like that?

We've seen an adult assimilated and look like the old style, and we've seen an adult assimilated and look like the new style. So I don't see how there's any justification for it.
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Old November 25 2011, 05:06 AM   #36
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

The Borg are scary (in part) because they're relentless and growing, per Picard's little "we fall back" speech. The Remans are clowns and failures. Their one shot at power and they backed the wrong horse (Shinzon), their lives were likely worst after the events of Nemesis than before.
In the end, both the Romulans and the Remans had it pretty bad, considering that Romulus was destroyed in nu-Star Trek (2009).
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Old November 25 2011, 06:26 AM   #37
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Sorry, I just don't buy that the Borg who are assimialted look different to the Borg who are grown in maturation chambers. There's no reason to believe it apart from the difference in appearance between the pre-FC and post-FC Borg.

And even then, the idea is shot down by the fact that the FC style Borg are the type that has been assimilated as an adult (remember Ensign Lynch?), so that means that if the other look for the Borg is the "grown in a maturation chamber" kind, why did Locutus look like that?

We've seen an adult assimilated and look like the old style, and we've seen an adult assimilated and look like the new style. So I don't see how there's any justification for it.
I'm not saying they look different, I'm saying that there are two types of Borg that are different in origins: The ones who were never individuals (the baby Borg, Hugh and his group) and the assimilated ones who were individuals.

They can't all be forcefully assimilated, because then the Collective would be under THEIR control and not be aggressively assimilating everything.
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Old November 25 2011, 02:31 PM   #38
Tiberius
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

I'm sorry, but that still seems like speculation to me.

There's nothing to suggest that the mind and personality of an assimilated person plays any part in what the Collective does.
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Old November 25 2011, 04:31 PM   #39
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

The Borg are a Hive Mind, the Collective is made up of the COLLECTIVE minds and wills of the Borg.

If the Borg are entirely made up of people that were forcibly assimilated, than that means the Collective is made up entirely from the minds of people who didn't want to be Borg.

This clearly isn't the case, meaning the Collective must have more minds in it that WANT to be Borg that they can drown out the wills and minds of the ones who DON'T.
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Old November 26 2011, 08:42 AM   #40
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

Anwar wrote: View Post
The Borg are a Hive Mind, the Collective is made up of the COLLECTIVE minds and wills of the Borg.

If the Borg are entirely made up of people that were forcibly assimilated, than that means the Collective is made up entirely from the minds of people who didn't want to be Borg.

This clearly isn't the case, meaning the Collective must have more minds in it that WANT to be Borg that they can drown out the wills and minds of the ones who DON'T.
Maybe that's what the Queen is for ... directing the drones minds and controlling them.
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Old November 26 2011, 05:07 PM   #41
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

The one Queen is supposedly powerful enough to control a Collective made up of billions, if not trillions, of reluctantly assimilated individuals?

I'd say it's easier to believe that most Borg AREN'T assimilated and the Collective is made up of the "born Borg" types who just want to be Borg or don't know what it's like to not be Borg and thus "drown out" the interference of the assimilated ones.
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Old November 27 2011, 11:28 PM   #42
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

I always see the Queen as the mind made of all those "billions, if not trillions, of reluctantly assimilated individuals" working together, much as our minds are made up of all those billions, if not trillions, of brain cells working together.
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Old November 29 2011, 03:25 AM   #43
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

If so, then her personality would reflect the majority of the Borg. And if the majority were reluctantly assimilated folks who didn't like the Borg, then the Borg should've stopped being a hostile force a long time ago.

It's just an example of writers being too afraid to really examine the Hive Mind so they can maintain the Borg as stock villains.
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Old November 30 2011, 12:57 AM   #44
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

Anwar wrote: View Post
If so, then her personality would reflect the majority of the Borg. And if the majority were reluctantly assimilated folks who didn't like the Borg, then the Borg should've stopped being a hostile force a long time ago.

It's just an example of writers being too afraid to really examine the Hive Mind so they can maintain the Borg as stock villains.
Why? Why must the personalities of assimilated people be incorporated into the personality of the Collective?
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Old November 30 2011, 08:00 PM   #45
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Re: Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

Because that's what a Hive Mind/Collective Mind is: it's made up of ALL the drones' combined wills and minds.

If not, then the Borg should not be classified as a Hive Mind/Collective. It should be classified as a sentient viral lifeform.
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