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Old November 29 2011, 03:04 PM   #616
Derishton
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

ITL wrote: View Post
DarKush wrote: View Post
Shane's hesitation when it came to Sophia was one of the few things I had issues with at the end. He had been going on about writing her off for two episodes and he's the one that initiated the zombie massacre. It didn't make sense for him to freeze then. I think it was more plot driven to get Rick in that position of pulling the trigger. It should've been Shane.
I disagree. It had to be Rick. We needed to see that he can make the really hard decisions that Shane can't. Shane's no leader. Rick is. And that is why.
This. It really seems to me that much of the criticism the show has received this season is directed at the things it's doing really, really well. The pace of the search for Sophia is necessary to set up the horror of the ending; Shane's blowhard status is undermined by his hesitation when it comes to shotting a child that he knew. People can criticize the show because they actually want to be watching Resident Evil; that's fair. But the show doesn't want to be that, and it's very good at being something else: thoughtful, philosophical, willing to take its time to set up narrative pay-off.
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Old November 29 2011, 03:32 PM   #617
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

O'Dib wrote: View Post
...if everyone's already infected, why does the virus kill only after a bite? You're saying the bite introduces not a zombie virus, but a separate strain of zombie killer bacteria?
Maybe the virus kicks in when a person is seriously injured. In other words, it's supposed to heal, but turns them into a zombie instead.
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Old November 29 2011, 03:34 PM   #618
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Yes, once the reveal happened at the end the whole protracted search for Sophia made a lot more sense. My wife had been getting tired of it but once we saw how it ended we both agreed the setup was worth it for the payoff. Talk about a downer ending though.
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Old November 29 2011, 04:04 PM   #619
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
O'Dib wrote: View Post
...if everyone's already infected, why does the virus kill only after a bite? You're saying the bite introduces not a zombie virus, but a separate strain of zombie killer bacteria?
Maybe the virus kicks in when a person is seriously injured. In other words, it's supposed to heal, but turns them into a zombie instead.
But look how badly Carl was injured... He didn't turn into a zombie.. Or do you just mean injured by a zombie attack?
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Old November 29 2011, 04:13 PM   #620
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Did Shane upset the Eco-system? The Farm was special in it's lack of Zombies, like there was a "Sonic Rodent Fence". Could it be rounding up the occasional Zombie and putting it into the "Stink Box" Barn has served as that "Sonic Fence". Zombies weren't attracted by the fresh meat, because the stench of all those trapped Zombies put off a smell that covered the Fresh Meat human smell, so Zombies weren't drawn there. Now, when the Zombie corpses are cleaned up, you no longer have that stench to cover the Fresh Human meat and maybe hordes will be drawn to such a large cache of fresh Human meat without competition.
Possible, but I don't see it as likely. Atlanta, the school they went to for medical supplies, those areas were crawling with zombies, but none wandered off in favor of better hunting grounds.

Easiest explanation is just that it's a rural area. Their sense of smell has to be limited, and when you've got miles of nothing around, nothing to draw you through all the woods and fields to that farm. Every now and then one wanders by, but just not in great frequency because it's so isolated. Even with the "sonic fence", they were still attracting attention occasionally, so it can't have been doing much to discourage them...
This. The farm was out in the middle of nowhere. Furthermore, it's been tacitly established that the zombie's sense of smell is limited to a few feet or yards (otherwise, they'd have smelled everyone under the cars in the first place). They aren't undead bloodhounds.


Derishton wrote: View Post
ITL wrote: View Post
DarKush wrote: View Post
Shane's hesitation when it came to Sophia was one of the few things I had issues with at the end. He had been going on about writing her off for two episodes and he's the one that initiated the zombie massacre. It didn't make sense for him to freeze then. I think it was more plot driven to get Rick in that position of pulling the trigger. It should've been Shane.
I disagree. It had to be Rick. We needed to see that he can make the really hard decisions that Shane can't. Shane's no leader. Rick is. And that is why.
This. It really seems to me that much of the criticism the show has received this season is directed at the things it's doing really, really well. The pace of the search for Sophia is necessary to set up the horror of the ending; Shane's blowhard status is undermined by his hesitation when it comes to shotting a child that he knew....
Presactly.

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
O'Dib wrote: View Post
...if everyone's already infected, why does the virus kill only after a bite? You're saying the bite introduces not a zombie virus, but a separate strain of zombie killer bacteria?
Maybe the virus kicks in when a person is seriously injured. In other words, it's supposed to heal, but turns them into a zombie instead.
From what I've read in interviews about the comic book:
1. Everyone is infected. Everyone who dies who isn't beheaded becomes a zombie.
2. Zombie bites are almost, but not always, fatal. Not so much because of the virus per se but probably because a zombie's mouth is made up of dead, rotting flesh full of all sorts of nasty germs.
3. Without adequate medical care that almost is definitely.
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Old November 29 2011, 04:16 PM   #621
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

the G-man wrote: View Post
From what I've read in interviews about the comic book:
1. Everyone is infected. Everyone who dies who isn't beheaded becomes a zombie.
2. Zombie bites are almost, but not always, fatal. Not so much because of the virus per se but probably because a zombie's mouth is made up of dead, rotting flesh full of all sorts of nasty germs.
3. Without adequate medical care that almost is definitely.
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Old November 29 2011, 04:34 PM   #622
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

marillion wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
O'Dib wrote: View Post
...if everyone's already infected, why does the virus kill only after a bite? You're saying the bite introduces not a zombie virus, but a separate strain of zombie killer bacteria?
Maybe the virus kicks in when a person is seriously injured. In other words, it's supposed to heal, but turns them into a zombie instead.
But look how badly Carl was injured... He didn't turn into a zombie.. Or do you just mean injured by a zombie attack?
Good point. Daryl was also injured. I didn't think things through when I made my post. I was thinking of that flesh-eating bacteria. A lot of people carry it without getting sick. It's usually when a person's body or immune system is compromised in some way that it becomes a problem.
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Old November 29 2011, 05:01 PM   #623
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
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One of the things I don't understand is not one single person in the group even remotely mentions to Herschel the fact that they were at the CDC and they pretty much knew what the "disease" is/does.
Herschel apparently believes that it's possible to cure people who are suffering mortal wounds, fatal blood loss, and their organs hanging out. And he believes all this despite being a doctor. (Yes, I know what kind.) His medical knowledge should inform him what is and isn't possible.

It doesn't matter what you tell him. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
Herschel is actually ahead of the curve. He was already a believer of resurrection of the dead BEFORE this event. Would anyone have believed the current situation even a couple years before it happened? (This is a universe where George A ROmero apparently never made zombie movie)

If something as unbliebavle as mass resurrection happened, how much crazier is it to have hope for a cure?

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
Here's a thought on the drawn out nature of the season thus far...

If you think about it, the sluggish nature of the storytelling this season and the endless search for Sophia was actually necessary.

At the end of the day, Shane, in all of his wild eyed glory, ended up mirroring the impatience of the audience. Even within the world of TWD, a character was tired of looking for her. The story needed to drag this out in some way since the endless search for Sophia is a big part of what's been pushing Shane ever closer to the edge. Part of what makes Shane's character work is that he is more than just crazy, he is also right and the audience is made to agree with his arguments if only because him being right means that we can all move on.


Shane's decision certainly moved the story line and parallels with fans' frustrations.


He is perhaps right in one sense, but certainly wrong in the attitude and approach.

There is the "reality", but there is also our reaction to that reality. ANd his reactions, IMHO, while understandable, are still wrong.

DarKush wrote: View Post
Derishton wrote: View Post
I agree that the ending was brilliant, in spite of the spoilers ... but my reason for thinking it was effective seems to be unique to me.

Shane isn't the Darwinian one, at least not in a conscious way. He's all for the hard tough-guy decision if it means killing anonymous walkers; he's as paralyzed as everyone else when it's Sophia, and it means re-killing her in front of her mother. In that sense, Herschel has the moral victory: his theory that there's a cure seems unlikely, but his point that walkers are our mothers, spouses, children, etc.? He's spot-on about that, and the hesitation of every one with a gun when Sophia lurches out the door testifies that Herschel is right, that there is a moral quandary here.

And then there's Rick, who answers Lori's faith that he is the kind of man to lead them, that Dale is wrong that this world is meant for someone like Shane. This world needs people like Rick, who can reinterpret the firing of a bullet as an act of compassion and not just fear or machismo. It also, paradoxically, points to the major theme of the last few volumes of the graphic series: can Rick make these decisions and still keep his soul?
Shane's hesitation when it came to Sophia was one of the few things I had issues with at the end. He had been going on about writing her off for two episodes and he's the one that initiated the zombie massacre. It didn't make sense for him to freeze then. I think it was more plot driven to get Rick in that position of pulling the trigger. It should've been Shane.
You're right in that it should have been Shane to have shot her. But like with all self-righteous hypocrites (not just religious ones, but seems like most in today's political debate climate), if "they" are not on your side/have no relationship with them, it's easy to shoot 'em down, and do it with even glee. But someone you care about/on "your side" (whom you have sacrificed for) is just as much a monster as the anonymous one...your reaction is mostlikely going to be different. The compassion that you lacked, the hope & memories of the what that person once was, will change your reaction, and create essentially a double standard. Sophie is just as dangerous as any of the Walkers...but could Shane viciously shoot her down, with her living mom seeing that? There's enough of a conscious to at least hesistate.



Rick, meanwhile, has shot a girl walker before. He didn't like it, but knew he had to do it.

If Hershel had taken Rick's Walker, Rick might have stopped Shane. But since the secret was out, Rick was willing to finish it.

i would hope that Hershel's "mercy" toward Walkers that he knew is a lot more understandable by the group (certainly Carol) than when they were just anonymous monsters.
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Old November 29 2011, 05:06 PM   #624
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
PKerr wrote: View Post
One of the things I don't understand is not one single person in the group even remotely mentions to Herschel the fact that they were at the CDC and they pretty much knew what the "disease" is/does.
Herschel apparently believes that it's possible to cure people who are suffering mortal wounds, fatal blood loss, and their organs hanging out. And he believes all this despite being a doctor. (Yes, I know what kind.) His medical knowledge should inform him what is and isn't possible.

It doesn't matter what you tell him. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
I realize that but it is much easier to reason or plead your case with someone when you present them with cold hard facts.
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Old November 29 2011, 05:10 PM   #625
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Rick was trying to negotiate remaining on the farm over Herschel's objections. He probably thought that trying to hit Herschel with "cold hard facts" at that point would have accomplished nothing but getting everyone displaced again.
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Old November 29 2011, 05:23 PM   #626
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

the G-man wrote: View Post
Rick was trying to negotiate remaining on the farm over Herschel's objections. He probably thought that trying to hit Herschel with "cold hard facts" at that point would have accomplished nothing but getting everyone displaced again.
I'm talking about the whole time people where on the farm, not just at that moment.

Glenn never said anything like that to Maggie either.
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Old November 29 2011, 05:29 PM   #627
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Yeah, well, I think we know what Glenn was trying to negotiate....
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Old November 29 2011, 05:33 PM   #628
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

I kept thinking... Please Glenn, don't say the wrong thing or you won't get any.
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Old November 29 2011, 06:06 PM   #629
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Vendikarr wrote: View Post
Would you want to see what happened to Sophia? I think I would. They could use one of those flashbacks they include at the beginning of episodes to show us what occurred.

I don't know about everyone else, but I would be interested in seeing it happen.
I would be interested, but I am not sure I could stand it.

I hate to think of anything horrible happening to children and seeing her wounded and alone while transitioning would be horrid for me.

But, the ep did make me wonder; how did she get there precisely?

I do not watch the Talking Dead, and learned that Otis put her in the barn from this thread.

It was not a big mental leap, but still...
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Old November 29 2011, 06:12 PM   #630
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

I didn't get the Otis factoid from the Talking Dead (I don't watch it either) - Herschel says it in the preview of the next episode, shown during Hell on Wheels, when Shane asks how long he knew Sophia was already gone.
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