RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,577
Posts: 5,514,826
Members: 25,154
Currently online: 505
Newest member: MC1367

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 28 2011, 08:49 PM   #571
JacksonArcher
Vice Admiral
 
JacksonArcher's Avatar
 
Send a message via AIM to JacksonArcher
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Even though I had already read the ending and the basic outline of the episode after peeking at the spoilers that were posted a few days back, the final moments of the episode were just absolutely gut-wrenching and you could feel the impact on every character.

It was one of the most simultaneously sad, tragic yet beautifully somber moments of the entire series to date, even if the ending was predictable especially since the whole Sophia sub-plot had been dragged out for so long. It makes sense given the thematic context of what had transpired over the duration of the season so far, and the impact from that reveal has a really hefty significance on all of the characters and whatever direction they end up heading after this fall-out.

I was suspecting after what happened with Hershel that the group would be kicked out of the house but it appears at the very least that they stay connected with Hershel on some level after watching the preview for the next batch of episodes.
__________________
"Please... We need you to hope again... " - Professor Charles Xavier, X-Men: Days of Future Past
JacksonArcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 09:04 PM   #572
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Kick-ass ratings, as you would expect. Do more sci fi like this, Hollywood, you will be rewarded with excellent demos.

I dunno where they're going with the story, but unless there's something to Herschel's "insane" notions of being able to cure zombie-ism, there's no moral conflict here.

Shane is right. Herschel is a deluded old man, and is immoral for endangering living people in a nutty attempt to save the dead. Rick is a poor leader, trying to "negotiate" with Herschel by participating in and reinforcing the behavior (saving zombies) that he should be trying to talk the guy out of. Rick got an up close and personal look at exactly why Herschel needs to be stopped - zombie catching sooner or later is going to result in disaster, especially with Otis gone.

There's plenty of interpersonal conflict here - Shane may be right, but he's also being portrayed as being more and more unstable (interesting contrast), and his motives are selfish, so his being right is merely accidental - but no moral conflict.

All that would change even if there were a possibility that Herschel may be right about zombie-ism being curable. Even if that shoe drops next season or the season after, long after Herschel is presumably out of the story, it would transform the meaning of everything we've seen.

Ryan wrote: View Post
It's interesting how much of Rick's personality in the comics is getting transferred to Shane in the TV series.
Not having read the comics, I'm not sure exactly what this means, but I think it's a good thing to have a more rigorously "moral" and even gentle lead character to contrast with the amoral character who argues for practicality at the expense of all else. To have both characters rolled into one would make the conflict too internal - which you can get away with in novels and graphic novels, but is problematic on TV, where all conflict must be externalized.

I find Shane in particular a fascinating character, and the more out of control he gets, the better he is.
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 09:06 PM   #573
MilleniumLance
Captain
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

much beloved character/ characters should be showing up soon
__________________
The Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step...
MilleniumLance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 09:10 PM   #574
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Oh, man, I dread watching this now.
And that's a good thing. Imagine having a zombie show you don't dread watching. What's the point of it being a zombie show, then?

And even then, it was because his people were getting attacked. Shane just went off the handle for no reason.
He thinks Lori is pregnant with his child (and I guess that soap opera angle hasn't been put to rest after all, oy vey). And even without that, he's concerned with Lori and Carl's safety. He probably is concerned about Rick and maybe Andrea too. He's trying to safeguard his people, just as Herschel was trying to safeguard his. Their motives are equal, both are pretty nutty, and which one is right depends entirely on a plot development we haven't gotten yet - is zombie-ism curable?

Indeed, it would have to be pretty damn obvious after opening the barn up like that with everyone - even unarmed people - standing right there, though it fit in with the "point" that he was trying to make about fighting to defend yourself and your people. Still, as crazy as Shane is apparently becoming, he was the only one who was proactive in doing something about the walkers in the barn.
The writers let Shane luck out this time. I was really expecting Zombie Lunch during that scene. I found the fact that none of the living got killed far more surprising than the oh-so-obvious 'twist' that Sophia was in the barn.

Sooner or later, Shane's antics are going to get people killed. The fact that he was (accidentally) right this time - if he hadn't opened up the barn, the gang would keep trying to find Sophia in the woods indefinitely, exposing themselves to needless danger - is just going to enhance his sense of self-justification and make him more dangerous still.
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 09:15 PM   #575
DarthTom
Fleet Admiral
 
DarthTom's Avatar
 
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Kick-ass ratings, as you would expect. Do more sci fi like this, Hollywood, you will be rewarded with excellent demos.
There is some strategy and luck I think too. With the success of teen flicks like Twilight the market is ripe for another group of dead people on the 'little screen,' combined with intense interpersonal drama.

I find Shane in particular a fascinating character, and the more out of control he gets, the better he is.
Agreed 100%
DarthTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 09:19 PM   #576
Takeru
Fleet Captain
 
Takeru's Avatar
 
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

As crazy as Shane is, I think he did the right thing. Hershel had to be forced to see what the Walkers are, they're not sick, they're not people, they are dangerous things that will kill you sooner or later if you're not willing to put a bullets in their brains.
Yes, it's Hershel's house, that doesn't mean he gets to make the rules. You can't do anything you want on your property in our non-ZA world and you most certainly can't do it in a world with no authorities and laws left. That includes property laws, it will stop being Hershel's farm as soon as someone with a bigger gun decides to kick the crazy old fart out. Sounds harsh, but that's the situation he's in.

And speaking of crazy old farts. I hate Dale, what a useless character, I hoped Shane would kill him, he would do the group a favor. The zombie attack in the season premiere was Dale's fault because he somehow missed them shuffling towards the group in a straight line while he was the lookout. Then he did nothing except lying about the repairs, sticking his nose into other people's private lifes, talking shit about Daryl (the most important member of the group who could teach them all a thing about hunting and surviving with civilization gone) and then trying to hide the weapons because the idiot who keeps zombies in his barn and lives in an unfortified house said so. When he asked Shane if he thought they'd be safer with the weapons I wanted to reach into the screen, grab him and scream "Yes, you are!".

Oh, and why is Dale constantly attacking Shane? He told him to his face that he thinks he's a murderous bastard who would kill his best friend, then he tells him he knows he shot Otis to save his own ass and that he won't kill him because he's not like Shane and than hands him back the weapons? Is he the one with the death wish now? Sounds like he's working on his suicide by crazy cop.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
All that would change even if there were a possibility that Herschel may be right about zombie-ism being curable. Even if that shoe drops next season or the season after, long after Herschel is presumably out of the story, it would transform the meaning of everything we've seen.
I think it's pretty unlikely that being a rotting corpse is curable.
Takeru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 09:21 PM   #577
Silvercrest
Rear Admiral
 
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
All that would change even if there were a possibility that Herschel may be right about zombie-ism being curable. Even if that shoe drops next season or the season after, long after Herschel is presumably out of the story, it would transform the meaning of everything we've seen.
That's true, but it's also unlikely in the extreme. It was that sort of thinking that led to my conclusion above. I don't know what "curing zombie-ism" would really mean, but it would have to encompass curing the large, graphic, and extremely mortal wounds that killed the people in the first place.
Silvercrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 09:23 PM   #578
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

I suspect the Twilight phenomenon is different and appeals to a different market (plus, movies and TV are very different types of businesses) but both point to the strong appeal of sci-fi/fantasy, which is great. Mainly I just want TWD's shining example to kick more cable networks in the ass to get them doing more sci fi, especially space opera. If people like zombies, they'll love aliens and robots!

I thought Shane's demonstration was pretty good. How else do you prove that something isn't normally alive, except that it can't be normally killed? That got me thinking, though. Herschel may think the walkers can cured-- but apart from the fact that they're feral and unreasoning, there's also the fact that most of them have big gaping holes with stuff leaking out. Wounds that are beyond modern medicine. If he thinks those can be healed too, that's some serious denial.
Or how about Bicycle Girl? How is she supposed to be "cured"? (And why aren't more zombies like her, with huge chunks missing? Anyway...) But the dilemma is, how can this show just let Shane be right about everything? I'm not pro- or anti-Shane, I just think there needs to be another shoe dropping here sometime.
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 09:32 PM   #579
DarthTom
Fleet Admiral
 
DarthTom's Avatar
 
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
I suspect the Twilight phenomenon is different and appeals to a different market (plus, movies and TV are very different types of businesses) but both point to the strong appeal of sci-fi/fantasy, which is great. Mainly I just want TWD's shining example to kick more cable networks in the ass to get them doing more sci fi, especially space opera. If people like zombies, they'll love aliens and robots!
This may be the wrong thread for this discussion but I don't think younger audiences today would ever buy a ST type of sci-fi TV show any longer. My sense is that anything that has a hope of flying has to be considerably more edgy than Trek ever was which is why TWD works.

As anside I was suprirsed last night that AMC didn't bleep out when Carl said, 'bullshit,' whereas Comedy Central bleeps out any profanity coming out of John Stewart's mouth - and they are both in late night time slots on regular cable.
DarthTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 09:38 PM   #580
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Ooh you're right about "bullshit" - that was pretty gutsy (but it needed to be there, to show something important about how Carl is taking on an adult persona too quickly) - I forget whether I'm watching basic or premium cable so stuff like that goes right past me.

And I think Star Trek could be adapted to be gutsier and more cable-ish, for example on Showtime, without losing its essentially optimistic character. The old, canned-episode format could never work. But there's a way to do "edgy" without it turning into nuBSG.
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 09:47 PM   #581
DarKush
Rear Admiral
 
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Just caught the mid-season finale. Wow, it delivered a gut punch ending. I was wondering why they were taking so long with the Sophia subplot, but the way it came together made it worth it.

I also like how they are showing Shane slowly unravel. I thought he was a goner by the end of the first season, but they are making good use of him here, contrasting his Darwinian philosophy against the more moderate Rick and then totally opposite direction Herschel. Though if I were him I would stop pining over Lori, Andrea is way hotter.

I do think Rick's group was totally out of bounds though in not respecting Herschel's rules. The walkers were pretty secure, and even if they didn't like it, hey, they didn't have to stay there. I think they had a point, but the way they went about it was wrong.

Other observations:

-I also didn't get why Dale chose to hide the guns, taking that self-defense choice away from everyone, not just Shane. He's a bit too controlling. And he is a bit of a busybody.

-At least they let T-Dog have a gun and he actually connected on his shots. He is generally portrayed as a bumbler, if he's shown doing anything at all. I hope T-Dog gets more development in the second half of the season. He's certainly no Tyrese (from the comics). And step one, stop calling him "T-Dog".

-Glad Maggie finally checked Herschel on calling Glenn that "Asian boy" all the time. And I like how she checked him on a being a hypocrite.
DarKush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 10:11 PM   #582
Derishton
Vice Admiral
 
Derishton's Avatar
 
Location: Nova Scotia (Derishton)
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

I agree that the ending was brilliant, in spite of the spoilers ... but my reason for thinking it was effective seems to be unique to me.

Shane isn't the Darwinian one, at least not in a conscious way. He's all for the hard tough-guy decision if it means killing anonymous walkers; he's as paralyzed as everyone else when it's Sophia, and it means re-killing her in front of her mother. In that sense, Herschel has the moral victory: his theory that there's a cure seems unlikely, but his point that walkers are our mothers, spouses, children, etc.? He's spot-on about that, and the hesitation of every one with a gun when Sophia lurches out the door testifies that Herschel is right, that there is a moral quandary here.

And then there's Rick, who answers Lori's faith that he is the kind of man to lead them, that Dale is wrong that this world is meant for someone like Shane. This world needs people like Rick, who can reinterpret the firing of a bullet as an act of compassion and not just fear or machismo. It also, paradoxically, points to the major theme of the last few volumes of the graphic series: can Rick make these decisions and still keep his soul?
__________________
I want to be sedated.
Derishton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 10:43 PM   #583
PKerr
Rear Admiral
 
PKerr's Avatar
 
Location: Tampa Fl
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

One of the things I don't understand is not one single person in the group even remotely mentions to Herschel the fact that they were at the CDC and they pretty much knew what the "disease" is/does.

They are dead, we saw what scientifically happens when you die, Blah, blah, blah.

That said I hope the show picks up it's pace when it returns.

I really hope they don't kill Shane off as that division between he and Rick can really add some decent drama to the show, maybe even have the group choosing sides and such.
PKerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 10:50 PM   #584
Santa Horrible
Tom Hendricks
 
Santa Horrible's Avatar
 
Location: Syracuse NY
View Santa Horrible's Twitter Profile
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

The ending made me cry. Even with being spoiled going into it, maybe its because I have two very young sons now. The killing of the other walkers in the barn was vindictive, the killing of Sophia was a relief. Its funny who the same thing can truly be two different things.
__________________
Now she's here shining in the starlight, Now she's here, suddenly I know. If she's here, it's crystal clear, I'm where I'm meant to go

Of course I'm a creationist. I believe man created god.
Santa Horrible is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 28 2011, 10:50 PM   #585
Kosh Naranek
Captain
 
Kosh Naranek's Avatar
 
Location: Elwood P. Dowd's House
Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

So are we to assume that Sophia got bitten somewhere near the creek bed? Was it only a day or two before Otis shot Carl? I cannot recall.

However, it does seem to me that the virus must have had a really short period of incubation in Sophia. They could not have put her in the barn before transition. She would have been Zombie fodder.

I did not notice any major wounds when she staggered out the the barn.
__________________
"In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd from Harvey
Kosh Naranek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
frank darabont, horror, robert kirkman, the walking dead, twd, zombies

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.