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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old November 24 2011, 09:32 PM   #31
TigerOfDarkness
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Re: Pon Farr Research

IIRC, T'Pol wasn't expecting to go into Pon Farr (it was induced by a drug or something), also there were no other Vulcans around - maybe pheromones have some effects on the females?
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Old November 25 2011, 04:04 PM   #32
Nerys Myk
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Re: Pon Farr Research

Is "Pon Farr" the ritual or just the bioligical contition that Vulcans enter prior to mating? The ritual its self is koon-ut-kal-if-fee (marriage or challenge), yes?
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Old November 25 2011, 04:23 PM   #33
Redfern
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Re: Pon Farr Research

I'm going by vague memory, but I believe Spock said to Kirk, "It is Pon Farr, the time of mating," which suggest, at least to me, he is speaking of a biological condition. Later, as the Koon-ut Kal-if-fee is underway, Spock's eyes roll back and fades into a near catatonic state which T'Pau, described as, "The Plak Tau, the 'blood fever'," which definitely appears to be a physiological state.

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Old November 25 2011, 05:42 PM   #34
Uxi
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Re: Pon Farr Research

Were T'Pol's symtpoms just like Spock in Amok Time? I would have thought that symptoms could be asymmetric between the sexes like they are for musk in bull elephants or heat in mammal females and the Vulcan male was the musk version (really aggressive and suited to the 'challenge' while females would get really really ... frisky).
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Old November 25 2011, 06:11 PM   #35
Timewalker
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Re: Pon Farr Research

leifer wrote: View Post
Mutai Sho-Rin wrote: View Post
leifer, I am very skeptical of your intentions here. I have a hard time imagining a university that would accept a subject about a fictional civilization. Please give some backup for this research project or I'll have to close the thread.
My assignment is to write about a ritual, analyzing it as such and illustrating how it meets the definition of a ritual as discussed in our course material. However, my professor does not want us to use Wikipedia or random websites, but he did recommend that I try posting in a Star Trek forum for information from people who are well educated and possess a lot of knowledge about Star Trek. I can assure you, that as this semester is coming to a close, I am not joking or ill-intentioned in my post. I am merely trying to gain information that my professor will deem credible in writing my paper.

Also, I have watched the episodes and 'done my own homework' but as I need more sources and it is an anthropology course, fieldwork and interviews are necessary, which is why I'm here. Apparently I am taking you more seriously than you are.
The problem with writing about this topic (I majored in anthropology in college, and did quite a number of papers on various religion-themed subjects) is that yes, pon farr is linked to the Vulcan marriage ceremony, but pon farr is NOT the ritual itself!. In fact, due to the challenge, we never actually see a normal Vulcan marriage ritual!

leifer wrote: View Post
We were assigned to write about a ritual, real or fictional, and this is the one I chose. I have already submitted the proposal and my professor approved it as technically, it is a ritual. I chose it because I'm tired of writing non-fictional, boring crap and wanted to have some fun with the assignment!
Pon farr has nothing whatsoever to do with Vulcan religious beliefs! It is biology. I honestly think you are approaching this from a poorly-thought out premise. If I had been your instructor, I wouldn't have approved such a topic.

If you wanted to explore religious rituals in the Star Trek settings, why not Klingon marriage or Right of Ascension? There is a great deal of information on Klingon religion/spirituality in the Next Gen/DS9 series. Or even Ferengi? There are some excellent episodes dealing with those.
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Old November 25 2011, 07:50 PM   #36
Captain Robert April
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Re: Pon Farr Research

A little something McCoy said might shed a bit of light on this whole thing:

"They still go mad at this time. Perhaps it's the price they pay for having no emotions the rest of the time"

In ancient times, Vulcans probably didn't need any pon farr to take a mate and go off to make little baby Vulcans. They just set their eyes on some pretty little pair of pointed ears and killed whoever stood in their way.

After the Surakian reformation, however, it was discovered that emotional repression only gets you so far. Sooner or later, something's gotta give, so the seven year cycle was begun, so that even the most repressed devotee of Kohlinar would have to go get busy or risk insanity as the emotional pressures reached critical mass. Or maybe those monks are all eunuchs, in which case Spock got out just in the nick of time.
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Old November 25 2011, 09:42 PM   #37
Nerys Myk
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Re: Pon Farr Research

I find it some what unbelievable that they could change their biology in such a short span of time. Something like the Pon Farr would have to be hard harded almost from the time they crawled out of the primordial ooze.

Given McCoy's track record, he's the last guy I'd go to for information on Vulcan biology/physiology/anatomy/whateverology.
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Old November 26 2011, 01:25 AM   #38
T'Girl
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Re: Pon Farr Research

Timewalker wrote: View Post
leifer wrote: View Post
it is a ritual
Pon farr has nothing whatsoever to do with Vulcan religious beliefs! It is biology.
Partially biology yes, but there are also psychological and religious aspects to it as well. The imbalance in Spock's bodily functions would be the biological component, but there were also episodes of psychological compulsion, some of which Spock had no memory of. Given that the paper being researched was for a Anthropology of Ritual course, then the religious aspect comes into play as well.

McCoy said T'Pau was officiating at Spock's wedding. We know that Vulan's have priestesses, and that there are one or two (or more?) Vulcan religions. So T'Pau's presents could be seen as a religious authority figure. The Koon-ut-kal-if-fee (marriage or challenge) would involve a marriage ritual of some sort, should there be no challenge. And the impression I received is that there still would have been a ceremony if there were any survivors of the battle.

Spock: "We shield it with ritual and customs, shrouded in antiquity."

Here is the fourth component of Pon Farr, that of social custom. I once figured that if Pon Farr is basically every seven years, and the effects last about a week, then in a (Earth) year one third of one percent of adult males would be in Pon Farr at any one time. The modern day to day business of Vulcan life would continue uninterrupted, everyone knows what's going on, and no one speaks of it.

Taboo, shame, guilt. You disappear from work, everyone knows why. You return after a certain time period, no one says anything to you.

Pon Farr is right up there with going to the bathroom at work to change your tampon.

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Old November 26 2011, 03:17 AM   #39
bbailey861
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Re: Pon Farr Research

This has, IMHO, become a great thread. Kudos to everyone here for their thoughts. Leifer, I hope you have gotten what you need. Incidentally, I also hope you are enjoying Regina. My wife was born there and was raised in Wilcox.
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Old December 4 2011, 11:50 PM   #40
leifer
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Re: Pon Farr Research

I have gotten some good information, and thank those of you who have taken me seriously. While Pon Farr is a biological condition, it is surrounded by ritual, and this is what I will be writing my paper on.

I would love to include more about the actual marriage ceremony, but can't find much and don't think it was ever performed on any of the tv series or in the films, though please correct me if I am wrong. Can anyone tell me what happens at a Vulcan wedding from beginning to end? What do the bride and groom go through to prepare for it, etc?
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Old December 5 2011, 01:43 AM   #41
Uxi
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Re: Pon Farr Research

Did you watch Amok Time, yet? That's got just about everything we know (which is only the challenge part, not the marriage part).
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Old December 5 2011, 08:21 PM   #42
Captain Robert April
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Re: Pon Farr Research

ENT got more into the marriage ceremony (especially since it was pointed out to Trip that if T'Pol invoked the kalifee, Trip'd probably wind up dead).
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Old December 7 2011, 07:30 PM   #43
TerragonSix
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Re: Pon Farr Research

Well, I have found the best way to research something is to personally experiment and analyze it.

So, take a large quantity of male endowment pills (such as Viagra or Levitra), and occasionally giving yourself shots of adrenaline (use an EpiPen, insert on the exterior portion of the meaty part of the thigh) Once every three hours.

Have fun.

(And no, I'm not being serious)

Now being serious, let me know the results of your research. It is rather interesting.
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Old December 11 2011, 09:04 PM   #44
voodoowoman
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Re: Pon Farr Research

Spock is the only source we have for info on this subject. "Every seven years, we are driven by forces we cannot control, to return home, and take a mate, or die in the attempt."
People mistakenly take this to mean the cycle is male. That cannot be. Nature does not create this kind of crisis for mere sexual pleasure. Mating is reproduction and there is no point in driving a male to the point of death or murder if the female is not ovulating. I theorize that orginally there was no mating cycle for the male. Males were able (telepathically) to discern which females were fertile and their obsession was with them. Vulcan cultural bonding of children was an attempt to control this ,so that (seven year estrous?) he was linked to HIS female only. I think that's where the seven years comes in. Perhaps Vulcan women only become fertile every seven years.
Evidently, Spock's bond with T'Pring had not "kicked in." We don't know why really. T'Pring's relationship with Stonn, whether intimate or not seems to have been the trigger for Spock's crisis. Remember, Spock has been missing from Vulcan for eighteen years! T'Pring logically concluded that she was not going to get marriage, and a family from him, so she chose someone else, thinking it would be allright since the bond was flawed. I know she didn't say this, only that she didn't want to be the consort of a "legend" This makes no sense. Spock should have shown up years ago!
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Old December 11 2011, 11:23 PM   #45
Captain Robert April
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Re: Pon Farr Research

The race would probably go extinct if the females only became fertile only once every seven years, so it's much more likely that the pon farr mating drive is the only time they have to mate. Otherwise, they can (and almost certain do) mate any time they damn well want to.
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