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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old November 22 2011, 05:45 AM   #316
Temis the Vorta
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Babyshit green is how Bajorans fondly remember Cardassian Yellow.
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Old November 22 2011, 01:14 PM   #317
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Eyes wrote: View Post
First I've heard of it, but it bodes well for me.
Well... sadly, the sample size that I used to come to that result was 1, which is 1,066 samples short of what I would have needed for the usual 3% margin or error, and it's certainly a far smaller sample size than I would have liked. Also, I have no data on what male history majors are are like in bed, and my scientific curiosity doesn't extend in that direction.
Scientific method? You are kidding me. That won't affect it, I am simply going to take your earlier statement and argue that to the death, as I believe you to be a reliable source and I shall support the evidence with my own ego.
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Old November 22 2011, 02:05 PM   #318
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Well... sadly, the sample size that I used to come to that result was 1, which is 1,066 samples short of what I would have needed for the usual 3% margin or error, and it's certainly a far smaller sample size than I would have liked. Also, I have no data on what male history majors are are like in bed, and my scientific curiosity doesn't extend in that direction.
Is TheGodBen a guy or gal? Because if TheGodBen slept with a male history major...

I'm confused...
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Old November 22 2011, 02:06 PM   #319
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Ln X wrote: View Post
TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Well... sadly, the sample size that I used to come to that result was 1, which is 1,066 samples short of what I would have needed for the usual 3% margin or error, and it's certainly a far smaller sample size than I would have liked. Also, I have no data on what male history majors are are like in bed, and my scientific curiosity doesn't extend in that direction.
Is TheGodBen a guy or gal? Because if TheGodBen slept with a male history major...

I'm confused...
He has no data on male history majors...
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Old November 22 2011, 07:04 PM   #320
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Eyes wrote: View Post
Scientific method? You are kidding me. That won't affect it, I am simply going to take your earlier statement and argue that to the death, as I believe you to be a reliable source and I shall support the evidence with my own ego.
Well, I just said it as a roundabout way of bragging, so if it boosts your ego then at least some good will have come from my immature comment.

Ln X wrote: View Post
Is TheGodBen a guy or gal? Because if TheGodBen slept with a male history major...
Then he'd be one very lucky, very happy history major. And I'd be suffering from the mother of all meth comedowns.


The Homecoming (****)

This episode's fault is that it's too good. There's so much Bajor/Cardassia stuff in this episode, all of it good, but it's a little jarring and it feels like it missed a few beats in its attempt to pack everything in. This episode contains the introduction of the Circle, the introduction of Li Nalas, the introduction of Minister Jaro, a rescue attempt, the prospect of war with Cardassia, an examination of hero worship, myths and sacrifice for a cause. Also, Quark got branded at some point. It was very enjoyable, I just feel like we skipped the foreplay in the rush to get to the action. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the ride all the same, and I'm optimistic about where things are going, but can't we just slow things down a little?

Duet and In the Hands of the Prophets were more successful at addressing similar issues because they took time to explore one or two things and built up to their memorable finales. This episode addresses so many issues that the sub-plot about Kira's strained relationship with the provisional government is buried and the ending comes out of left-field. There's also the fact that the Circle are just sort of there now. Their origins make perfect sense given the events of season 1, but they've suddenly become a major force on Bajor in the five-month or so gap between the two seasons. This episode could really have done with being split into two episodes, which probably wasn't feasible as a three-part story was already very ambitious for Star Trek at that time, proposing to extend it to four would probably have been shot down.

All that being said, this was still a great episode to watch. Following on from ITHOTP, we're finally getting some real fallout from the death of Opaka. Bajor's failing political system collapsing into civil war is exactly the sort of story the show needed right around now. Li Nalis may be a bit of a goody two-shoes, but Richard Baymer plays the reluctant hero well, which is weird as I can now never forget him playing Benjamin Horne on Twin Peaks, especially that weird plot-line (even by Twin Peaks' standards) where he went insane and thought he was a Confederate general in the American civil war. What I really liked about the episode was how everyone was playing politics with him, from Minister Jaro's refreshingly honest self-serving speech with him, to Sisko's well-intentioned, yet still ultimately self-serving, plea that he stand up and attempt to unite the Bajorans. In fact, the only reason he was rescued at all was because of a political gamble Sisko decided to take, not because it was the humane thing to do. For such an honest, likeable man, the universe sure is cynical towards him.
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Old November 22 2011, 10:06 PM   #321
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Eyes wrote: View Post
Scientific method? You are kidding me. That won't affect it, I am simply going to take your earlier statement and argue that to the death, as I believe you to be a reliable source and I shall support the evidence with my own ego.
Well, I just said it as a roundabout way of bragging, so if it boosts your ego then at least some good will have come from my immature comment.
Ba-boom! Always go for the positives!

Also, immature comments are brilliant for me.

TheGodBen wrote: View Post

The Homecoming (****)
I loved that this one was so strong. It holds up on repeated viewings, and it makes DS9 feel far bigger than any Season 1 episode did.

I knew there was a reason I liked Li. He's my kind of guy, gets messed around by everyone when he's really much better than all of them.

Shame...
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Old November 22 2011, 11:22 PM   #322
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I agree about liking Li Nalas. Even though I didn't really realize it at the time, his mannerisms even influenced the way I wrote my AU version of Dukat (who is a resistance fighter against Bajoran invaders). He was played very well.
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Old November 23 2011, 12:09 AM   #323
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

The Homecoming is jammed pack with politics, action and all sorts, and I like that. But the best bit is Li Nalas explaining to Sisko how he got legendary: 'and all I had done was shot an unarmed Cardassian in his underwear. I'll never forget that look on his face as he died. He was so... embarrassed.'

That to me is just classic, it would be almost funny if it weren't so serious. Richard Baymer delivered the sarcasm amazingly well!
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Old November 23 2011, 04:10 AM   #324
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

The Circle Trilogy was my first introduction to DS9. There's a reason it hooked me on this series - it's freaking awesome.

The political atmosphere of these episodes, and this one in particular, are what makes for great Trek. I've always thought that Trek was at it's best when dealing with the politics of it's universe (Journey to Babel, The Defector, just about any political episode of DS9, the Vulcan Trilogy in ENT).

My only complaint is that they should have delved into politics more deeply and more often than they already did.
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Old November 23 2011, 04:44 AM   #325
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
The Circle Trilogy was my first introduction to DS9. There's a reason it hooked me on this series - it's freaking awesome.

The political atmosphere of these episodes, and this one in particular, are what makes for great Trek. I've always thought that Trek was at it's best when dealing with the politics of it's universe (Journey to Babel, The Defector, just about any political episode of DS9, the Vulcan Trilogy in ENT).

My only complaint is that they should have delved into politics more deeply and more often than they already did.
This was the point where DS9 really started to push for its own identity. I'm sure that part of the reason they were able to get away with this was because they avoided doing a cliff hanger and did not put a "part 1/2" anywhere near this.I'm sure Berman had to be convinced that each episode stood on its own. I'm also certain that Berman put his foot down after this and said "not so fast" and demanded more stand alones after this. In some ways this was the opening shot of the show runner's litte insurgency against trek orthodoxy requiring stand alone storytelling.
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Old November 23 2011, 04:47 AM   #326
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
In some ways this was the opening shot of the show runner's litte insurgency against trek orthodoxy requiring stand alone storytelling.
And thank God for that.
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Old November 23 2011, 05:02 AM   #327
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I think the Circle trilogy illustrates the main reason I love season 2 and rank it the third best season of the series. This is when the Star Trek universe became bigger than what was ever shown on TV and DS9 allowed this kind of development. We got out of the episodic nature and into more politics and making various races and stories more interesting and complex. Homecoming was such a great episode to start the series, especially coming off the heels of In the Hands of the Prophets and I'm glad you enjoyed it, TheGodBen. Looking forward to the rest of your reviews.
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Old November 23 2011, 05:35 AM   #328
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
I'm sure Berman had to be convinced that each episode stood on its own.
The continuity error between parts 2 & 3 regarding the runabout transporter probably helped make that case.
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Old November 23 2011, 09:39 AM   #329
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
The Circle Trilogy was my first introduction to DS9. There's a reason it hooked me on this series - it's freaking awesome.
Me too! I'd bypassed season one and watched this on telly with my friend, who helped get me into Star Trek in the first place. I really enjoyed the trilogy - it was a brilliant start to the season. I remember back then that Kira being removed from DS9, and then not getting back by the next episode, was something I wasn't expecting. Sure, it was 'only' a three episode thing, but it was ambituous, and was an indication of the greater things to come.

The Homecoming is probably the best episode of the three. The inclusion of Frank Langella and Richard Beymer is particularly fun! Li Nalas is a very interesting soul, by having a hard time accepting his status as a legend. And Bajoran politics is something that I loved about the earlier seasons, as the theme wasn't as prevalent throughout the later years.

It's all good stuff! My only problem is that I can't reply in babypoo green.
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Old November 23 2011, 11:39 AM   #330
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
The political atmosphere of these episodes, and this one in particular, are what makes for great Trek. I've always thought that Trek was at it's best when dealing with the politics of its universe (Journey to Babel, The Defector, just about any political episode of DS9, the Vulcan Trilogy in ENT).

My only complaint is that they should have delved into politics more deeply and more often than they already did.
I agree. Such episodes show a confidence in the setting, and the writers' comfort with their established races and characters. I suppose the reason such episodes are often so memorable is because they don't simply showcase characters or nations but tell genuine stories with them, which also implies the writers actually understand what they're doing, which is naturally a plus. This is also, in my opinion, why DS9 is the strongest Trek show - it isn't just based in the Trek universe, there's a sense of real familiarity and comfort with the setting, enough for the writers to be daring and inventive. To stir things up while thickening the brew. That's the true spirit of exploration - not "strange new worlds" but familiar ones and how they interact. The "infinite combinations" aspect of IDIC. I guess what I'm saying is that DS9 embodies the spirit of Trek at its best more successfully than the other shows, and I find it a little amusing that some fans dislike it for "going nowhere" or having little exploration in the usual sense. It's interesting that you mention the Vulcan trilogy of ENT, because I think season four of Enterprise also achieved that level of comfort with its setting, and was by far the show's strongest because of it. A shame it took them so long to get there.
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