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Old November 18 2011, 04:25 PM   #76
Captaindemotion
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

^ He owes me my money back for The Dark Knight Strikes Back. Frank, if you're reading...
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Old November 18 2011, 04:41 PM   #77
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

It's not a work of historical fiction. It is not reality. It is a work of fantasy. It doesn't have to be accurate and yes he does have supreme authority over that.

This reminds me of when Emenim beat up on that sock puppet.
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Old November 18 2011, 04:41 PM   #78
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

^ Who won?
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Old November 18 2011, 04:43 PM   #79
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

xortex wrote: View Post
It's not a work of historical fiction. It is not reality. It is a work of fantasy. It doesn't have to be accurate
You misunderstand. I (and Brin) are not criticizing 300 for not being historically accurate; we are criticizing it for possessing particular inaccuracies that advance an authoritarian, militaristic agenda.

It's not inaccuracy that is bad, it's inaccuracy in the service of an immoral agenda that is bad.
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Old November 18 2011, 04:52 PM   #80
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

^ To play devil's advocate though (and having started this thread, I'm no fan of Miller the person) but hasn't he said that he intends to write a graphic novel where the Spartans are the bad guys?
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Old November 18 2011, 05:02 PM   #81
xortex
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

I like Authority and the military and would love to see the Spartans played as bad guys. i think that that would be cool. To not like someone's art because you don't like them personally is wrong and vice versa.
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Old November 18 2011, 05:15 PM   #82
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

^ I'm pretty sure Sci isn't saying he dislikes Miller's (or anyone's) art because he dislikes them personally.
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Old November 18 2011, 05:17 PM   #83
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

Re Brin on 300: If Brin's impression of Sparta was actually correct, the real question is why Sparta wasn't like most oppressive states where the ruling classes easily accepted Persian suzerainty in exchange for support of their privileges. And if his impression of Athens was correct, the real question is where the Athenian Empire came from.

Re 300: Imagining the ephors as a hideous rabble and Xerxes as a transvestite freak and Persians as demonic says everything you need to know.

Re Frank Miller completely losing the plot: How do we know he ever had it. From what I see of the Nolan version of Batman, which is apparently a blend of Miller and Insomnia, there's no reason to think Miller ever had the plot.

.
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Old November 18 2011, 05:26 PM   #84
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
The “Occupy”movement, whether displaying itself on Wall Street or in the streets of Oakland (which has, with unspeakable cowardice, embraced it) is anything but an exercise of our blessed First Amendment. “Occupy” is nothing but a pack of louts, thieves, and rapists, an unruly mob, fed by Woodstock-era nostalgia and putrid false righteousness. These clowns can do nothing but harm America.

“Occupy” is nothing short of a clumsy, poorly-expressed attempt at anarchy, to the extent that the “movement” – HAH! Some “movement”, except if the word “bowel” is attached - is anything more than an ugly fashion statement by a bunch of iPhone, iPad wielding spoiled brats who should stop getting in the way of working people and find jobs for themselves.

This is no popular uprising. This is garbage. And goodness knows they’re spewing their garbage – both politically and physically – every which way they can find.

Wake up, pond scum. America is at war against a ruthless enemy.

Maybe, between bouts of self-pity and all the other tasty tidbits of narcissism you’ve been served up in your sheltered, comfy little worlds, you’ve heard terms like al-Qaeda and Islamicism.

And this enemy of mine — not of yours, apparently - must be getting a dark chuckle, if not an outright horselaugh - out of your vain, childish, self-destructive spectacle.

In the name of decency, go home to your parents, you losers. Go back to your mommas’ basements and play with your Lords Of Warcraft.

Or better yet, enlist for the real thing. Maybe our military could whip some of you into shape.

They might not let you babies keep your iPhones, though. Try to soldier on.

Schmucks.

I have no idea who this Miller is, from this thread i see he is involved in comics........as for his opinion i disagree with him 100%.......OM might not change the world, but they have succeeded in getting people talking about them, and more importantly talking about all the immoral assholes who dumped the world into this economic mess to simply line their own pockets.......For that i thank the OM and all the other similar protest happening around the globe.
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Old November 18 2011, 05:31 PM   #85
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

Sci wrote: View Post
xortex wrote: View Post
It's not a work of historical fiction. It is not reality. It is a work of fantasy. It doesn't have to be accurate
You misunderstand. I (and Brin) are not criticizing 300 for not being historically accurate; we are criticizing it for possessing particular inaccuracies that advance an authoritarian, militaristic agenda.

It's not inaccuracy that is bad, it's inaccuracy in the service of an immoral agenda that is bad.
Yeah, I don't think most people would argue with the taking of "creative license" when it comes to historical details. Doing it to tell a more dramatically effective story makes perfect sense. Doing it to push a hideously oppressive political agenda is pretty messed up.
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Old November 18 2011, 07:50 PM   #86
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

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Re Frank Miller completely losing the plot: How do we know he ever had it. From what I see of the Nolan version of Batman, which is apparently a blend of Miller and Insomnia,
I'm afraid your impression is mistaken. Nolan's Batman films encompass a lot of different influences -- Frank Miller's Batman: Year One is only one of them. Nolan's Batman is influenced by everything from Denny O'Neil's Batman: The Man Who Falls to Alan Moore's The Killing Joke to Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale's The Long Halloween.
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Old November 19 2011, 02:40 AM   #87
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

Which detail of historic accuracy would have made the 300 more dramatically effective?
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Old November 19 2011, 02:57 AM   #88
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

xortex wrote: View Post
Which detail of historic accuracy would have made the 300 more dramatically effective?
read Robert Maxwell's post again.
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Old November 19 2011, 03:50 AM   #89
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
xortex wrote: View Post
It's not a work of historical fiction. It is not reality. It is a work of fantasy. It doesn't have to be accurate
You misunderstand. I (and Brin) are not criticizing 300 for not being historically accurate; we are criticizing it for possessing particular inaccuracies that advance an authoritarian, militaristic agenda.

It's not inaccuracy that is bad, it's inaccuracy in the service of an immoral agenda that is bad.
Yeah, I don't think most people would argue with the taking of "creative license" when it comes to historical details. Doing it to tell a more dramatically effective story makes perfect sense. Doing it to push a hideously oppressive political agenda is pretty messed up.
Could've been worse, he could've have all the Spartan warriors admit they're not as bad-ass as Batman.

Last edited by Trekker4747; November 19 2011 at 12:07 PM.
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Old November 19 2011, 05:32 AM   #90
Sci
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Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post

You misunderstand. I (and Brin) are not criticizing 300 for not being historically accurate; we are criticizing it for possessing particular inaccuracies that advance an authoritarian, militaristic agenda.

It's not inaccuracy that is bad, it's inaccuracy in the service of an immoral agenda that is bad.
Yeah, I don't think most people would argue with the taking of "creative license" when it comes to historical details. Doing it to tell a more dramatically effective story makes perfect sense. Doing it to push a hideously oppressive political agenda is pretty messed up.
Could've been worse, he could've hace all the Spartan warriors admit they're not as bad-ass as Batman.
Actually, that's a political agenda I wouldn't object to.
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