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Old October 29 2011, 10:05 PM   #136
The Dominion
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Janeway is not dead. There are several different accounts of her dying/being assimilated/saving the universe or whatever, in different noncannon fictions. But as far as the main timeline is concerned, she's still alive and accounted for in the TNG era. As far as supplemental fiction goes, anything can happen, and anyone can write it.

Now, what's the problem?
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Old October 29 2011, 10:46 PM   #137
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

The problem is that there are no novels with Janeway in them available for purchase. I've had to spend all my book money elsewhere.
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Old October 29 2011, 11:17 PM   #138
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

@ Chuckling, you are also free to write any of the character any way you want to, but licensed Trek, has an obligation to all of Trek Fans to produce stories about all the Trek Characters, they also have the obligation to all of Trek fans to produce those characters "in character" and to leave the character in the same condition that they found them in the first place.

No one is stopping anyone from producing fan fiction. But we are not talking about fan fiction; we are talking about published books that are produced for profit. That is a whole different thing.
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Old October 29 2011, 11:29 PM   #139
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Galekarens wrote: View Post
Kathryn Janeway should be resurrected, of course, because she was the most important character of the Voyager TV show, actually its heart and soul, and the "Voy" books without her are not really Voyager, they are only stories with a ship and some of the original Voyager characters, and now many non-canon characters taking over, and that's not what most Voyager fans want to read. The current "Voy" novels reflect the sad state of affairs of Trek lit today, where death and destruction are more important than the true Trek spirit of life and adventure, and characters are considered expendable no matter how important they have become to so many fans. Every day on Facebook we hear from people who can't understand how such an iconic character like Kathryn Janeway, who was close to many Voyager fans' hearts (and I'm not saying all, so don't comment and say, well not me; am just saying many, many), could have been so cruelly rid of in the Trek books, and why can't she be brought back, since it wouldn't seem that difficult to do for the imaginative Trek book authors. They are saddened to hear KJ is considered unnecessary by the TPTB of Pocket Books and regretfully decide they can no longer continue to read the Star Trek books they used to enjoy, since without Kathryn Janeway that universe is no longer one they want to experience. That includes me, a long time Trek fan and former book reader. Bring KJ back, we know she lives!!!
Put it like this, Voyager was probably the worst Trek series (I watched it all, and quite enjoyed it, but it was very flawed) and had some very hard to like to characters, namely Janeway, Tuvok, Torres and Neelix.

The first few relaunch novels were embarrasingly bad, but Kirsten Beyer has pulled off something of a miracle - Voyager is now the most vibrant, dynamic and interesting title in Treklit (a very widely shared opinion). This is without Janeway (or Tuvok) and they really are not needed, and for me at least, not wanted. I miss Kirk, Scotty and Data, but not Janeway.

If Ms Beyer does bring Janeway back, I am sure she will do it well and write the character sympathetically - I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't find her Janeway less annoying than Kate Mulgrews, but I don't think there are many people losing sleep about it.
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Old October 30 2011, 01:54 AM   #140
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
The first few relaunch novels were embarrasingly bad, but Kirsten Beyer has pulled off something of a miracle - Voyager is now the most vibrant, dynamic and interesting title in Treklit (a very widely shared opinion). This is without Janeway (or Tuvok) and they really are not needed, and for me at least, not wanted. I miss Kirk, Scotty and Data, but not Janeway.
I have no quarrel with you not missing Janeway, but conversely I do miss her and I have every right to expect to be able to purchase Paramount Licensed Books that have that character included. It isn't the character’s fault that you don't like the Christy Golden books; it isn't even the character's fault that you dislike her. If the Kirsten Beyer books are vibrant, they would have been just as vibrant with Kathryn Janeway, in fact in one sense they are because Afsarah Eden shares most of the same attributes.

Voyager needs all her characters, including Tuvok and Janeway, those are the stories that I will be happy to purchase.

There can be books about Kathryn Janeway written that would satisfy her fans and you would never have to open one, but the way it is right now we don't have the privilege to do this at all. All we are saying that we are fans and should be considered too.
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Old October 30 2011, 02:19 AM   #141
Chuckling
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Brit wrote: View Post
@ Chuckling, you are also free to write any of the character any way you want to, but licensed Trek, has an obligation to all of Trek Fans to produce stories about all the Trek Characters, they also have the obligation to all of Trek fans to produce those characters "in character" and to leave the character in the same condition that they found them in the first place.

No one is stopping anyone from producing fan fiction. But we are not talking about fan fiction; we are talking about published books that are produced for profit. That is a whole different thing.

You are right about that, I can write the characters anyway I want to. And no, licensed Trek does not have any obligation to keep or use any characters they no longer want to use, for whatever reason (many of which it may not be appropriate to share with the fans, possibly due to legal reasons). If CBS and/or Paramount Pictures decide they don't want a character continuing, they instruct the writers and the character is written out.

Licensed Trek's job is to keep the franchise functioning and for that to occur, the reality is that it needs to be making money.

Consider this. *Star Trek* is now a worldwide franchise. Wherever the Internet exists, there are *Star Trek* fans. Of the 6,775,235,700 people in the world, let's say that 1,000,000.00 of them are *Star Trek* fans. Suddenly the 1,000 fans who want Janeway back in the novels is less than 1%.

Of the 850 fans you have listed in your Facebook group, authors would receive approximately $1 of what you pay at the register. An $850 check wouldn't go far these days! Even if MANY Janeway books were written and you bought them all, it still wouldn't come even close to covering the costs of producing them.

Like it or not, these are the realities of the situation. The publishers and franchise have the statistics and Captain Janeway focused novels apparently aren't selling, for whatever reason! If the publishers are not making back (at least) the costs of producing the books, they won't continue publishing them.

But you are not explaining to me why it is so important to you that you be able to buy the books with "Captain Janeway" in them.

So, let me see if I can put this into words for you that may represent what you are saying. You want the professional writers creating stories that involve your favorite characters where you can relax and be entertained.

Plus there is something about the *Captain Janeway* character that draws you to her and that you want to understand better and re-experience. In effect, the character has become like a friend and you don't want to lose that friendship.

And that's great! Perfectly understandable!

But let's consider that even considering only the main characters of this 45 year old franchise, there are 46 central figures, all of whom have their dedicated fanbase and want them to receive due attention as well. And every single one of them have cash they want to spend also.

Here's the thing! I don't think anybody is necessarily saying the character of *Captain Janeway* is gone for good! Might be, might not be. But for the time being, other characters are being given some time in the spotlight!

In the meantime, you guys keep *Captain Janeway* alive and develop what you would like to see happen.

Apart from TPTB being able to observe what you're doing and what you regard as important in the character and what attracts you, they will be able to work out what you'd possibly like included in the other character's development and storylines as well.

This is a 45 year old franchise and it isn't dead yet! While there's life, there's hope!

How does what I said above sit with how you feel? Is that an apt description of why you want the character returned to the novels?


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Last edited by Chuckling; October 30 2011 at 02:22 AM. Reason: Grammar! 0:) Left a word out! Oops!
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Old October 30 2011, 02:30 AM   #142
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

To be choosen as a Trek writer is an honor from my point of view and the writers steadily should consider that. The honor is connected with a big responsibility: To keep the Star Trek universe worth and enjoyable "to live in" for every Trek fan and not exclusively for a part of them. Not every book can be liked by everybody the same as well, but also the recent books should cover the different desires of the readers.

Gotham and Chuckling, if my -our- points would be so stupid like you want to show it in your special rude and un-businesslike way, you wouldn't consider it for being worth to waste any time on answering to my post. You couldn't make me happier!

Thank you for at least checking out my website and raising the hits on it as well as for the advertisement to visit my site by mentioning it over and over, but I doubt, that you really read the whole post with all the connected links.
Hopefully at least you didn't miss my Life Drawings and adult rated parts . (Not all is only Trek related.)

You are afraid of us Janeway fans, 'cause we are more than you thought and this is good this way.

Chuckling, I don't understand why we should share our fanfics on the Koffeeclub page . You might not know that this is a private website like mine is too. Only the owner(s) can post there.
Fanfics are usually shared on special private writer’s boards as well as fanfiction.net and similar places and not send to any private person.
I didn't know that you are such a fan of JC fan fiction that you would dig all over the Koffeeclub site to only find the stories! You surely agree that there are really good ones to find. If you look for more: I have a decent collection of links on my site you happen to know now.

You believe, my posts don't get any answers in Europe? Did you know that a big part of our active Facebook group members consists of Europeans? Probably not. Now you do. Just guess who's (along with my friend's) invitations they followed and who founded the group .

My Bring Back Janeway connected posts in other boards are mostly only made for informing other people and include links. The people who want to join us come to our Facebook group. This are the group and Facebook for: to connect.
There are indeed members of different Voyager forums only they are using their real names or RP names there, of course. I didn't think that I need to explain this to you. Maybe you don't know Facebook that well.

BTW:
I have truly neither time nor desire anymore to constantly jump around all those Star Trek boards as I did being new in fandom. So you barely will see me often posting there anyway.
Thanks for the talk, guys, and I'm glad that I could help . Real life waits.
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Old October 30 2011, 03:09 AM   #143
Chuckling
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Kathryn J. wrote: View Post
To be choosen as a Trek writer is an honor from my point of view and the writers steadily should consider that. The honor is connected with a big responsibility: To keep the Star Trek universe worth and enjoyable "to live in" for every Trek fan and not exclusively for a part of them. Not every book can be liked by everybody the same as well, but also the recent books should cover the different desires of the readers.

Gotham and Chuckling, if my -our- points would be so stupid like you want to show it in your special rude and un-businesslike way, you wouldn't consider it for being worth to waste any time on answering to my post. You couldn't make me happier!

Thank you for at least checking out my website and raising the hits on it as well as for the advertisement to visit my site by mentioning it over and over, but I doubt, that you really read the whole post with all the connected links.
Hopefully you didn't miss my Life Drawings and adult rated parts . (Not all is only Trek related.)

You are afraid of us Janeway fans, 'cause we are more than you thought and this is good this way.

Chuckling, I don't understand why we should share our fanfics on the Koffeeclub page . You might not know that this is a private website like mine is too. Only the owner(s) can post there.
Fanfics are usually shared on special private writer’s boards as well as fanfiction.net and similar places and not send to any private person.
I didn't know that you are such a fan of JC fan fiction that you would dig all over the Koffeeclub site to only find the stories! You surely agree that there are really good ones to find. If you look for more: I have a decent collection of links on my site you happen to know now.

You believe, my posts don't get any answers in Europe? Did you know that a big part of our active Facebook group members consists of Europeans? Probably not. Now you do. Just guess who's (along with my friend's) invitations they followed and who founded the group .

My Bring Back Janeway connected posts in other boards are mostly only made for informing other people and include links. The people who want to join us come to our Facebook group. This are the group and Facebook for: to connect.
There are indeed members of different Voyager forums only they are using their real names or RP names there, of course. I didn't think that I need to explain this to you. Maybe you don't know Facebook that well.

BTW:
I have truly neither time nor desire anymore to constantly jump around all those Star Trek boards as I did being new in fandom. So you barely will see me often posting there anyway.
Thanks for the talk, guys, and I'm glad that I could help . Real life waits.

Kathryn J., I realise English is not your first language but I can assure you, you were not being answered in a rude way at all and actually, you were being answered in a completely businesslike manner, even if you didn't like what was being said.

I am glad you agree with me that being a Trek writer is a responsibility and an honor. I am sure every *Star Trek* writer understands that and they are endeavouring to fulfill the role, even if it doesn't suit what you think they should do.

No, I did not have time to visit every section of your website nor do I desire to. Plus you are deliberately misconstruing the point of my using the Koffee Club as an example of something that has been producing Janeway materials for a very long time. i.e. long term fans have dealt with these issues many times over and come up with their own solutions.

You can post wherever you want. i.e. your website. Like everybody else, that's your choice.

Nobody is afraid of the Janeway fans, not even remotely. Why? Should we be? Is there something we don't know about you that we should be scared of?

Here's reality Kathryn J. A first print run of ANY book will usually run to about 30 - 50,000 copies. They have to print at least that number in order to make back how much it costs to publish a book.

There are many *Janeway* books already available. But the publishers don't have unlimited resources to continue publishing books just because a small section of a particular fandom wants them to. For a time, they want to try publishing books focusing on other characters and see whether they sell any better.

There is nothing odd about any of this: That's how the publishing industry works. Nobody has a conspiracy against Janeway fans, it is just simply time to give the character a rest and work with other characters and emphasize other storylines.

Oh and BTW, nobody really cares about who founded the Facebook group. That's been known by many; throughout your campaign. It hasn't made any difference before and isn't going to now or in the future

The reality about whether or not the publishers and franchise want to continue writing a character are the same and no matter who wants things to be different will alter that; it won't be changed unless/until it becomes practical for them to do so.

In the meantime, enjoy Kate's wonderful work in all her new endeavours! And watch and read what already exists containing *Captain Janeway*. Like any friendship, spending time with it and reconsidering the past will only strengthen your appreciation of what you've got.

One more thing Kathryn J. You know how there is this theory that any *Star Trek* campaign of letters and contact will get minority groups of fans whatever they want? If they just get enough signatures and enough people joining in, the studios and franchise and TPTB will eventually give in?

It's a myth!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek

"...The threat of cancellation loomed during the show's second season.[11] The show's fan base, led by Bjo Trimble, conducted an unprecedented letter-writing campaign, petitioning NBC to keep the show on the air.[12] NBC renewed the show, but moved it from primetime to the "Friday night death slot", and substantially reduced its budget.[13] Roddenberry reduced his direct involvement in Star Trek before the start of the season to protest the changed timeslot, and was replaced by Fred Freiberger. The series was canceled in its third season, despite the protests of a renewed letter-writing campaign...."


In other words, NBC may have initially "given in" but they moved the show to a bad timeslot. It was actually more of a slap in the face to the fans than actually giving them what they wanted. Admittedly, it got the show back on air but then after that, campaigns were ignored.

Fact is, there are now so many *Star Trek* fans, each with their own version of what they want, it is not possible for everybody to be kept happy. That means the franchise has little choice but to make their own decisions, trying to find the best solution possible, even if that means minority groups are not always going to get what they want, all the time.

As you admit Kathryn J., you are new to fandom. Enjoy what you have and look forward to whatever may come in the future! The best option is to allow the authors and writers the freedom to write whatever it is they want to and that way, everybody involved can be surprised at where in the *Star Trek* universe they take us!


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Last edited by Chuckling; October 30 2011 at 03:19 AM. Reason: Typing in a rush! *blush*
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Old October 30 2011, 04:20 PM   #144
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Brit wrote: View Post
I have no quarrel with you not missing Janeway, but conversely I do miss her and I have every right to expect to be able to purchase Paramount Licensed Books that have that character included. It isn't the character’s fault that you don't like the Christy Golden books; it isn't even the character's fault that you dislike her. If the Kirsten Beyer books are vibrant, they would have been just as vibrant with Kathryn Janeway, in fact in one sense they are because Afsarah Eden shares most of the same attributes.

Voyager needs all her characters, including Tuvok and Janeway, those are the stories that I will be happy to purchase.

There can be books about Kathryn Janeway written that would satisfy her fans and you would never have to open one, but the way it is right now we don't have the privilege to do this at all. All we are saying that we are fans and should be considered too.
To be frank your 'expectations' re Paramount are unrealistic - a busineses only responsibilities outside legal restrictions are to make as much profit for the boss/shareholders, and to screw the workforce over wherever possible, reducing costs. Everything else is window-dressing. You have no right (and nor do I) to expect ANYTHING will be included, or that novels will even be produced.

I did admit that if Ms Beyer does bring Janeway back that I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't find her Janeway less annoying than the one in the show. I therefore have no strong feelings either way about her return, but you will probably find that is true of most Trek fans, and that does not add up to a whole lot of pressure for her return.
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Old October 30 2011, 11:25 PM   #145
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

I really hope that Janeway will be brought back to the boks. She belongs there.

But I must admit that I've more and less given up "official" Star Trek. The books, the movies, the current direction of Star Trek, all of it has taken the wrong turn.

I still enjoy watching episodes from Voyager, TNG, TOS and DS9 as well as re-reading some of the good, old books from that era but I find it hard to stir up any enthusiasm over the on-going projects of the current Star Trek.
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Old November 7 2011, 12:11 AM   #146
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

AuntKate wrote: View Post
The problem is that there are no novels with Janeway in them available for purchase. I've had to spend all my book money elsewhere.
Actually given the downturn in the economy I'm a bit thankful to be saving some money by not having any Janeway books to buy.

Now if I could just throttle back on the shoes...
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Old November 17 2011, 01:54 AM   #147
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Rich people used to patronize artists.

Well they still do, but nearly on the same level.

Artist in residence, and consignments and...

What's to stop one of us from paying someone in the fanfiction forum to write us Janeway stories to order?

Do an American Idol Audition tender process... Get them to fight for the privilege of accepting your dosh.

Of course then we get into ownership issues, that you bought the story, but they created the story, so shouldn't they deserve a kickback if you resell or should you get pissed if they continue to sell the story which was made to your order?

Arghhh!
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Old November 17 2011, 02:08 AM   #148
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

^ I've seen that done with fan art on deviantart.com. Occasionally, I'll see an image of some character from a franchise with a description that says, "This piece was commissioned by..."
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Old November 17 2011, 10:33 PM   #149
AuntKate
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Rich people used to patronize artists.

Well they still do, but nearly on the same level.

Artist in residence, and consignments and...

What's to stop one of us from paying someone in the fanfiction forum to write us Janeway stories to order?

Do an American Idol Audition tender process... Get them to fight for the privilege of accepting your dosh.

Of course then we get into ownership issues, that you bought the story, but they created the story, so shouldn't they deserve a kickback if you resell or should you get pissed if they continue to sell the story which was made to your order?

Arghhh!
Damn those copyright laws!

I'd love to see a really good author take the Voyager relaunch, include all the original crew, and write a compelling (and plausible) series of novels about them following Endgame. I personally think they would sell like hotcakes.
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Old November 17 2011, 11:29 PM   #150
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

AuntKate wrote: View Post

I'd love to see a really good author take the Voyager relaunch, include all the original crew, and write a compelling (and plausible) series of novels about them following Endgame. I personally think they would sell like hotcakes.
This is exactly what I'd love as well. Is there a petition I can sign?
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