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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old November 12 2011, 02:28 AM   #136
siskokid888
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

sonak wrote: View Post
And ridiculous-looking uniforms.
The uniforms of TMP were non-martial, and Roddenberry wanted it that way- Starfleet was about exploration, not conquest. Meyer and company went with military uniforms- playing to base ideas.
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Old November 12 2011, 02:44 AM   #137
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

The FC uniforms looked pretty martial.
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Old November 12 2011, 02:50 AM   #138
Skywalker
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

If you can call pajamas martial, that is.
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Old November 12 2011, 02:55 AM   #139
siskokid888
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

The Dominion wrote: View Post
The FC uniforms looked pretty martial.
Yes, the TNG unis were more martial. I think they went away from what Roddenberry wanted, and my point was the TMP unis were not "ridiculous", they tried to show that Starfleet was not a military organization. One of the things I liked about the "Enterprise" series was the utilitarian jumpsuit uni - much closer to Roddenberry's vision.
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Old November 12 2011, 05:01 AM   #140
sonak
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

siskokid888 wrote: View Post
The Dominion wrote: View Post
The FC uniforms looked pretty martial.
Yes, the TNG unis were more martial. I think they went away from what Roddenberry wanted, and my point was the TMP unis were not "ridiculous", they tried to show that Starfleet was not a military organization. One of the things I liked about the "Enterprise" series was the utilitarian jumpsuit uni - much closer to Roddenberry's vision.

Um, but Starfleet clearly was at least somewhat military, as they were an organization responsible for defense, and that same movie shows them responding to a threat.

They travel around in ships that are armed to the teeth and fight in wars. Who does that sound like?


But at any rate, from just an aesthetic perspective, I prefer the look of the burgundy uniforms of the later movies, whether they were more militaristic or not.
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Old November 12 2011, 06:57 AM   #141
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

siskokid888 wrote: View Post
The uniforms of TMP were non-martial, and Roddenberry wanted it that way- Starfleet was about exploration, not conquest. Meyer and company went with military uniforms- playing to base ideas.
Have you seen the "uniforms of the future" that used to be showcased at EPCOT, Disney World, Florida, in the 70s? Based on extensive research and extrapolation, they look intriguingly like the Starfleet uniforms Robert Fletcher ended up with for TMP a few years later.
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Old November 12 2011, 02:02 PM   #142
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

Why are the films based on the original series better than the TNG movies? It's all in the source material.
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Old November 12 2011, 02:16 PM   #143
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

igrokbok wrote: View Post
Why are the films based on the original series better than the TNG movies? It's all in the source material.
No, that's not it at all. If that were true, then the TNG films would have been a gazillion times better than the TOS films.

The TOS films got lucky because they had better writers and directors, and the TNG films got the short end of the stick with poor writers and bad direction (with the exception of Frakes who did a terrific job directing FC).

This inequality should sum things up:

TNG show > TOS films > TNG films > TOS show

Just my opinion, of course.
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Old November 12 2011, 02:25 PM   #144
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

Some would think it goes like this...

TOS>TNG seasons 1-5>TOS movies>TNG seasons 6-7>Absessed tooth>TNG movies.
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Old November 12 2011, 07:25 PM   #145
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

sonak wrote: View Post
siskokid888 wrote: View Post
The Dominion wrote: View Post
The FC uniforms looked pretty martial.
Yes, the TNG unis were more martial. I think they went away from what Roddenberry wanted, and my point was the TMP unis were not "ridiculous", they tried to show that Starfleet was not a military organization. One of the things I liked about the "Enterprise" series was the utilitarian jumpsuit uni - much closer to Roddenberry's vision.

Um, but Starfleet clearly was at least somewhat military, as they were an organization responsible for defense, and that same movie shows them responding to a threat.

They travel around in ships that are armed to the teeth and fight in wars. Who does that sound like?


But at any rate, from just an aesthetic perspective, I prefer the look of the burgundy uniforms of the later movies, whether they were more militaristic or not.
Starfleet has a defensive military component, but Roddenberry wanted to focus on the exploration aspect. Of course, space battles are more widely seen as entertaining, so that ended up becoming the focus.
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Old November 12 2011, 07:37 PM   #146
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Some would think it goes like this...

TOS>TNG seasons 1-5>TOS movies>TNG seasons 6-7>Absessed tooth>TNG movies.
You are welcome to your opinion, even if I completely disagree.
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Old November 12 2011, 08:03 PM   #147
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

siskokid888 wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
siskokid888 wrote: View Post

Yes, the TNG unis were more martial. I think they went away from what Roddenberry wanted, and my point was the TMP unis were not "ridiculous", they tried to show that Starfleet was not a military organization. One of the things I liked about the "Enterprise" series was the utilitarian jumpsuit uni - much closer to Roddenberry's vision.

Um, but Starfleet clearly was at least somewhat military, as they were an organization responsible for defense, and that same movie shows them responding to a threat.

They travel around in ships that are armed to the teeth and fight in wars. Who does that sound like?


But at any rate, from just an aesthetic perspective, I prefer the look of the burgundy uniforms of the later movies, whether they were more militaristic or not.
Starfleet has a defensive military component, but Roddenberry wanted to focus on the exploration aspect. Of course, space battles are more widely seen as entertaining, so that ended up becoming the focus.

well except for TVH, which was a good film, a hugely successful one, and one with no space battles. That one always disrupts the "post-TMP films were successful because of kewl explosions" thesis so I love to bring it up.
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Old November 12 2011, 08:27 PM   #148
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

Well, TMP itself could be called an effects show.
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Old November 13 2011, 03:16 AM   #149
siskokid888
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

sonak wrote: View Post
siskokid888 wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post


Um, but Starfleet clearly was at least somewhat military, as they were an organization responsible for defense, and that same movie shows them responding to a threat.

They travel around in ships that are armed to the teeth and fight in wars. Who does that sound like?


But at any rate, from just an aesthetic perspective, I prefer the look of the burgundy uniforms of the later movies, whether they were more militaristic or not.
Starfleet has a defensive military component, but Roddenberry wanted to focus on the exploration aspect. Of course, space battles are more widely seen as entertaining, so that ended up becoming the focus.

well except for TVH, which was a good film, a hugely successful one, and one with no space battles. That one always disrupts the "post-TMP films were successful because of kewl explosions" thesis so I love to bring it up.
ST 4 didn't have explosions, but it wasn't good. Horrendous forced humor (double dumb ass on you - I mean, really?) and the pseudo-relationships evident in the TOS movies - the only honest character moment was between Spock and Sarek at the end of the film. And the Meyer-Bennett lack of respect for Trek storytelling as a whole - "how do we know he didn't invent the thing?" yea- lazy sloppy storytelling with no regard for the rules as was the norm with Trek 2 thru 6.
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Old November 13 2011, 01:10 PM   #150
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

siskokid888 wrote: View Post
ST 4 didn't have explosions, but it wasn't good.
Yet it was extremely successful. Apparently, a lot of people found it good after all. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Tr...tical_response:

The Voyage Home garnered 11 nominations at the 14th annual Saturn Awards, tying Aliens for number of nominations. Nimoy and Shatner were nominated for best actor for their roles,[65] and Catherine Hicks was nominated for best supporting actress. At the 59th Academy Awards, The Voyage Home was nominated for Best Cinematography, Sound (Terry Porter, David J. Hudson, Mel Metcalfe and Gene Cantamessa), Sound Effects Editing, and Music.[66][67]
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