RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,743
Posts: 5,433,069
Members: 24,837
Currently online: 467
Newest member: Dina212

TrekToday headlines

Episode Four of The Red Shirt Diaries
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Star Trek: The Compendium Review
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Orci Drops Rangers Project
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Retro Review: Image in the Sand
By: Michelle on Sep 20

Star Trek: Shadows Of Tyranny Casting Call
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

USS Vengeance And More Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek 3 To Being Shooting Next Year
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 30 2011, 07:45 PM   #106
wahwahkits
Commander
 
Location: England, somewhere between Liverpool and Chester
View wahwahkits's Twitter Profile
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

So you're not fond of the English then?
wahwahkits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30 2011, 09:11 PM   #107
The Dominion
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Gamma Quadrant
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

You're right, those English are weird people, unlike Americans.

Anyways, I would be pretty surprised if they remade a show with as iconic characters as Picard, Data, Worf and Geordie on TV now. TNG might be dead, but it just doesn't feel like it's been long enough to do that. It would feel like too much Deja Vu too soon, and I would think it's a little like putting Clinton's face on the dime. It just hasn't been dead long enough.
__________________
A witty saying proves nothing. ~ Voltaire
The Dominion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30 2011, 11:01 PM   #108
xortex
Commodore
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

wahwahkits wrote: View Post
So you're not fond of the English then?
I hate everybody equally.

It doesn't matter to me who the poeple are. It's all about outer space and rocket ships. But they should be A) alive and B) good looking and available. What ever happened to central casting? Even Riker's eyes were not straight. Conception is eveything. TNG was based on GR's TMP and no different.
xortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31 2011, 09:04 PM   #109
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Kegg wrote: View Post
Picard is also pretty darn iconic, and I think there's a pretty open and shut case to be made for Worf.
Picard isn't very iconic when you separate him from Patrick Stewart playing him. Worf is basically just an iteration on Spock.

Iconic characters are the ones that can be recast and just continue merrily along, like JJ Abrams proved with the TOS characters. Do the same with the TNG characters, and I'm not sure what you'd have. Data would be the most reliable, because of his iconic status, but the rest could be dull or a train wreck or both.

For instance, folks are suggesting that Picard be actually French this time around. Interesting idea, but it takes the serious risk of a lead character who comes off as an obnoxious, stuck-up prig.

Stewart playing Picard got around that danger, but it's far from certain another actor wouldn't stumble right into that trap, especially if he has the handicap of an actual French accent, and let's be honest, that would be a handicap. People will either think he's an asshole right off the bat, or a joke like Inspector Clousea or PePe LePew, because that's how we've all been conditioned.
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31 2011, 09:06 PM   #110
wahwahkits
Commander
 
Location: England, somewhere between Liverpool and Chester
View wahwahkits's Twitter Profile
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

xortex wrote: View Post
wahwahkits wrote: View Post
So you're not fond of the English then?
I hate everybody equally.

It doesn't matter to me who the poeple are. It's all about outer space and rocket ships. But they should be A) alive and B) good looking and available. What ever happened to central casting? Even Riker's eyes were not straight. Conception is eveything. TNG was based on GR's TMP and no different.
You're really funny (in a good way!)
wahwahkits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31 2011, 09:32 PM   #111
Captaindemotion
Vice Admiral
 
Captaindemotion's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Temis the Bleeding Aorta wrote: View Post
Kegg wrote: View Post
Picard is also pretty darn iconic, and I think there's a pretty open and shut case to be made for Worf.
Picard isn't very iconic when you separate him from Patrick Stewart playing him. Worf is basically just an iteration on Spock.

Iconic characters are the ones that can be recast and just continue merrily along, like JJ Abrams proved with the TOS characters. Do the same with the TNG characters, and I'm not sure what you'd have. Data would be the most reliable, because of his iconic status, but the rest could be dull or a train wreck or both.

For instance, folks are suggesting that Picard be actually French this time around. Interesting idea, but it takes the serious risk of a lead character who comes off as an obnoxious, stuck-up prig.

Stewart playing Picard got around that danger, but it's far from certain another actor wouldn't stumble right into that trap, especially if he has the handicap of an actual French accent, and let's be honest, that would be a handicap. People will either think he's an asshole right off the bat, or a joke like Inspector Clousea or PePe LePew, because that's how we've all been conditioned.
Over the years, Picard basically became English; he had a very Anglo-Saxon attitude and stoicism, which went along with his being played by a fine English actor. So I think a re-cast Picard would probably have to at least look and act a little like Patrick Stewart.

But had he been played by someone like Jean Reno or Vincent Cassell, or some other charismatic French actor, who works well in English (this does not include Gerard Depardieu who can only do French, IMHO) I think he could have been an equally iconic though very French character.
__________________
Hodor!!!!!!!
Captaindemotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31 2011, 09:52 PM   #112
Wereghost
Commodore
 
Wereghost's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland.
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

I can see another actor having a stab at Data and providing a slightly different take on him, but Dorn and Stewart have very distinctive presences and with the possible exception of Geordi the other characters are, frankly, kind of generic. So we have a show where the distinctive characters are distinctive because of the performances of the actors and generally not in a way that lends itself to imitation or reinterpretation. I'd also question the wisdom of recasting and rebooting something that became - and for all I know still is - the most successful syndicated TV show in history. It would no doubt produce a lot of nostalgic discussions about how Picard (TV Picard) was the bomb and how Stewart was the only man for the job. Jean-Luc would have been a very different character without Stewart, who invested him with a dignity and forbearance that at times seemed almost superhuman.
Wereghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6 2011, 04:00 AM   #113
Anji
Rear Admiral
 
Anji's Avatar
 
Location: Assisting in the birth of baby Horta on Janus VI
View Anji's Twitter Profile
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

No, no, no, no. Let's not even think about this.

TNG was made, it was done.

Come up with something new and different. Re-hashing TNG would serve NO purpose.
__________________
"You may be wrong, but you may be right." - Billy Joel
Anji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8 2011, 03:38 PM   #114
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Worf would in many ways be the easiest to recast. Data would be the most interesting.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8 2011, 07:40 PM   #115
Kegg
Rear Admiral
 
Kegg's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland.
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Picard isn't very iconic when you separate him from Patrick Stewart playing him.
That doesn't begin to make sense. Captain Kirk was also strongly tied to William Shatner. Some of the most famous or infamous things about Kirk (such as Shatner's unusual delivery) are directly attributable to the actor. Picard is an eloquent Man of Reason, a stoic and cultured and literate and accomplished starship captain. He had one of the biggest pop culture impacts of any Star Trek character, I know people who are not science fiction fans, aren't Star Trek fans, but still speak of 'Picard' or 'the one with Picard' as the one they liked.

Worf is basically just an iteration on Spock.
Which says nothing. Data is also an iteration on Spock as far as that goes. Worf, by himself, is an iconic Star Trek character. He's the face of the Klingons, one of Star Trek's most popular - or at least well known - alien races. He's still the go-to guy example for honourable alien warrior - and that's something he didn't get from Leonard Nimoy's Vulcan.
__________________
'Spock is always right, even when he's wrong. It's the tone of voice, the supernatural reasonability; this is not a man like us; this is a god.'
- Philip K. Dick
Kegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8 2011, 09:23 PM   #116
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Over the years, Picard basically became English; he had a very Anglo-Saxon attitude and stoicism, which went along with his being played by a fine English actor. So I think a re-cast Picard would probably have to at least look and act a little like Patrick Stewart.
Which just goes to show how un-iconic Picard, the character, is. His identity is too strongly associated with a certain actor.

Why bother dusting off a character who doesn't have a strong identity as written? Why not just have someone write a new character?

Captain Kirk was also strongly tied to William Shatner. Some of the most famous or infamous things about Kirk (such as Shatner's unusual delivery) are directly attributable to the actor.
Kirk was tied to Shatner in both positive and negative ways, which is why when he was successfully recast with Chris Pine, it was a benefit that Pine shucked off a lot of the silliness.

The fact that Kirk survived recasting and a bit of reimagining underscores how iconic he is. An iconic character is one who transcends any given actor.
Data is also an iteration on Spock as far as that goes.
You're ignoring the other influences on Data - Pinnochio, the entire realm of artifical intelligence characters that predated him in science fiction. Data's iconic status was only partly created by Star Trek anyway; he was a pre-existing iconic type imported into Star Trek. Spock was pre-existing, too - the outsider alien, the "half breed" type from Westerns - but he was greatly adapted for Star Trek. Data wasn't adapted nearly to that extent.

However, I don't object to Worf as a fairly iconic character, the "noble savage type." Maybe I just find him a tad racist and it makes me uncomfortable?

Come up with something new and different. Re-hashing TNG would serve NO purpose.
I agree. I don't see the benefit, vs all the different character types and premises that could come from just inventing something new. Why give up the huge promise that lies in an entirely new story and cast of characters?
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8 2011, 09:58 PM   #117
Kegg
Rear Admiral
 
Kegg's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland.
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Why bother dusting off a character who doesn't have a strong identity as written?
Because it worked for Kirk, who is also iconic. And I'd point out that if you take many of the Star Trek scripts - particularly the early ones - you could easily swap Captain Kirk for Jeffrey Hunter's Captain Pike or Leslie Nielsen's J.J. Adams.

Yes, Stewart helped define the character as rather British, but this was in part due to the writers playing to their actor's strengths, which is par for the course for any TV show.

The fact that Kirk survived recasting and a bit of reimagining underscores how iconic he is. An iconic character is one who transcends any given actor.
This is one of those hindsight deals. Kirk's iconic and should be recast only because he has, because Picard hasn't, he shouldn't. Really, to do Picard well you need a balding Britishy actor with a bit of gravitas and some theatrical experience. You can probably throw a stone and hit someone of that vague description. He's a Dignified and Learned Starship Captain, full of Morals and Ethics and Thespain Intensity. Picard's pretty easy to type to, and he has a type, and the strength of it was sort of important to TNG's appeal.

You're ignoring the other influences on Data -
I'm not. At least, not any more then you were when you pigeonholed Worf as 'the Spock' of TNG. Both characters owe something to Nimoy's Vulcan, but not everything.

However, I don't object to Worf as a fairly iconic character, the "noble savage type." Maybe I just find him a tad racist and it makes me uncomfortable?
There are certainly problems with the opposite of denigrating a foreign or 'primitive' culture because it is foreign and/or primitive, and that would be idealizing it - although I think this works in Worf's case because it's so utterly internalized.

Worf still wants to be his idea of the honourable Klingon that he so desperately loved in his basically human childhood, but The Next Generation kind of repeatedly throws cold water on the idea that the Klingon leadership is particularly honourable or even that the stiff-necked, humourless Worf actually fits in with their culture at all.
__________________
'Spock is always right, even when he's wrong. It's the tone of voice, the supernatural reasonability; this is not a man like us; this is a god.'
- Philip K. Dick
Kegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10 2011, 01:26 AM   #118
Balrog
Commodore
 
Balrog's Avatar
 
Location: Balrog
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

I recently had the opportunity to look back at some of the early design concepts of TNG's Enterprise interior and bridge, and I got the sense the creators in '87 wanted the ship to be twice as large, less militaristic, much more "casual" in the sense that this was To be a ship with a mission of deep space exploration that would take its crew and families years away from earth. Those artist conceptions looked absolutely impossible to create back then. Perhaps they would serve now, however, as a starting point for a 25th Century Star Trek television show.
__________________
Anybody got some peppermint?
Balrog was Lloyd Dobler
Balrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10 2011, 04:09 AM   #119
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Because it worked for Kirk, who is also iconic.
That's my point - iconic characters are the ones worth recasting.

And I'd point out that if you take many of the Star Trek scripts - particularly the early ones - you could easily swap Captain Kirk for Jeffrey Hunter's Captain Pike or Leslie Nielsen's J.J. Adams.
The way Kirk was developed in TOS, he greatly transcended the cookie-cutter square-jawed hero type. If he hadn't, he wouldn't be worth resurrecting, really. (However it remains to be seen if JJ Abrams is going to evolve his Kirk into that direction; in two hours, he didn't have much more time than just introduce him as a pretty generic smartass type).
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10 2011, 04:54 PM   #120
Kegg
Rear Admiral
 
Kegg's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland.
Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
That's my point - iconic characters are the ones worth recasting.
And I agree with that. Well, broadly.*

I go further in stating that Picard is also iconic. He's easily one of the most well known Star Trek characters.

The way Kirk was developed in TOS, he greatly transcended the cookie-cutter square-jawed hero type. If he hadn't, he wouldn't be worth resurrecting, really.
Both Pike and Adams are given to moments of introspection, and the end of Forbidden Planet, where Adams puts together the parts and speechifies wildly, could easily be the ending monologue for Kirk in a Star Trek episode. The big thing Kirk has they don't have is sufficiently more exposure, a memorable dynamic with two other characters, and William Shatner.

*Obviously if you're readapting a novel or something, you may bring back characters because they're part of the story, not because they have marquee value. And so on. Other discussion, of course.
__________________
'Spock is always right, even when he's wrong. It's the tone of voice, the supernatural reasonability; this is not a man like us; this is a god.'
- Philip K. Dick
Kegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
the cw, tng

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:17 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.