TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine - Page 18

Admiral Shran · November 10 2011, 03:26 AM

Sykonee wrote:

I knew Lucy was a bitch, but not to that extent!

F***ing Lucy! I knew she would be the one to try to kill everyone.

MrBorg · November 10 2011, 03:37 AM

The next episode is where DS9 starts to get good.

I look forward to your review of it!

Admiral Shran · November 10 2011, 12:00 PM

^ Indeed, the return of the Cardassians.

M · November 10 2011, 12:43 PM

Hm, first time I really disagree with you, TGB: I loved "Dramatis Personae"! It's one of the better episodes of the first season. Granted, the conflict is a purely superficial one, but I like the way the mutiny unfolds and how everyone is more or less driven to one side of the opposing parties. It's kind of a what if story, where we see the natural conflicts between the characters driven to the maximum.

TheGodBen · November 10 2011, 04:52 PM

The problem with treating it as a "what if" story is that the characters aren't really themselves. And it's not that the virus thing amplified parts of their personalities, it seems to have completely replaced their existing ones. You may as well call Sisko by a completely different name as whoever was in this episode wasn't him.

Duet (***)

This has to be one of the most overrated episode of Trek ever. It's not bad, it's just not that masterpiece that some make it out to be, and people tend to gloss over some of the plot-holes because they're so mesmerised by Darhe'el's ridiculously evil rant. But the biggest problem with this episode is that it's too complicated. A good episode of television shouldn't leave you guessing as to how it will end, it should be apparent within the first five minutes of the show. There are too many twists and turns in this episode to make it enjoyable.

No, I'm not insane, I'm just lying. I thought I'd have my fun with all of you before posting a real review. I'm too lazy to type up any more nonsense about this episode, so here's the lyrics from Copacabana to make this fake review look real at first glance. Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl. With yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there. She would merengue and do the cha-cha and while she tried to be a star, Tony always tended bar. Across a crowded floor, they worked from 8 till 4, they were young and they had each other. Who could ask for more? At the Copa, Copacabana, the hottest spot north of Havana. At the Copa, Copacabana, music and passion were always the fashion at the Copa....they fell in love. His name was Rico, he wore a diamond. He was escorted to his chair, he saw Lola dancin' there and when she finished, he called her over. But Rico went a bit too far, Tony sailed across the bar and then the punches flew and chairs were smashed in two.

There was blood and a single gun shot, but just who shot who? At the Copa, Copacabana, the hottest spot north of Havana. At the Copa, Copacabana, music and passion were always the fashion at the Copa....she lost her love. Her name is Lola, she was a showgirl. But that was 30 years ago, when they used to have a show. Now it's a disco, but not for Lola, still in the dress she used to wear, faded feathers in her hair. She sits there so refined, and drinks herself half-blind. She lost her youth and she lost her Tony, now she's lost her mind! At the Copa, Copacabana, the hottest spot north of Havana. At the Copa, Copacabana, music and passion were always the fashion at the Copa....don't fall in love.

Form of... a cocktail umbrella: 7

DonIago · November 10 2011, 08:14 PM

Bah, that was a disappointing review.

Seven of Five · November 10 2011, 09:42 PM

I always thought that the Bajor/Cardassia confict started over I've Got A Lovely Bunch Of Coconuts, but now I know the truth.

junxon · November 10 2011, 09:59 PM

are you going to do a proper review then?

BlueStuff · November 10 2011, 10:15 PM

MrBorg wrote:

The next episode is where DS9 starts to get good.

I look forward to your review of it!

You must be mistaken, since there's still a way to go before we get to Melora!

Seven of Five · November 10 2011, 10:30 PM

Lola said:
No, I'm not insane, I'm just lying. I thought I'd have my fun with all of you before posting a real review.

Yeah he's reviewing it.

TheGodBen · November 10 2011, 11:48 PM

Duet (*****)

I was wary going into this episode. I knew that it was good, but I also knew that the reputation of the episode was such that if it didn't get all 5 stars some people would declare me a heretic and chase me out of the forum. So I'm glad that this really is a 5 star episode, that makes my life simpler. It is, quite simply, a masterpiece.

Even knowing the way the plot will unfold, the episode still manages to be engaging. In the beginning it seems like we're being set up for a lesson about tolerance and objectivity for Kira, and I guess that's what the episode is in a way, but it's also so much more. The episode has political intrigue, an examination of the nature of evil, and the tragedy of Marritza. While most of the episode focuses on Kira and Marritza, it starts out by putting Sisko in the tricky position of trying to stick up for justice while being put under pressure by a government that only wants vengeance. The episode could have been about that alone and it would have been good, but here it's just part of a larger puzzle.

The meat of the story comes in the various scenes between Kira and Marritza. At first, Marritza makes some good points about Kira and he seems like the calm, rational one in the room, and even though he's clearly racist towards Bajorans, Kira is just as racist towards Cardassians. Then we get those powerful scenes where Marritza "admits" to being Darhe'el and goes off on long, insane rants about how the Bajorans are a lesser race, unworthy of any decency or respect. It's raw, it's brutal, and it's horrific, all the more so because at times he makes good points. You can't bring back the dead, you can't undo the things that Darhe'el has done, the justice of seeing him pay for his crimes would be a hollow victory in many ways. Then we come to their closing scenes together where Marritza finally breaks down and admits the truth. Those of you that know me know that I'm cynical and manly, so it takes a lot to bring me to tears. This episode didn't, but it's the closest I've come all, oh, let's just say week.

Everything in this episode works, it is a finely crafted piece of drama. The story, the dialogue, the acting, all that stuff clicks. Pretty much all the scenes are worthwhile, except perhaps for the Quark scene, which felt like they were trying to shoehorn him into the episode, but even that's not too bad. This is easily the best episode of the season, and one of the best of the whole show. Even its stellar reputation doesn't harm it, it meets those expectations and still manages to rise further above them.

MrBorg · November 10 2011, 11:56 PM

*readies pitchfork* HERETI-

*scrolls down a bit*

Oh.

Good episode. Good review, as well.

DonIago · November 10 2011, 11:57 PM

Much better.

Son of Quark · November 11 2011, 12:10 AM

"Duet" is one of the best ever Deep Space Nine episodes. Harris Yulin who played Marritza did one of the best acting jobs I have ever seen. Pretty hardcore episode.

Deranged Nasat · November 11 2011, 12:51 AM

The moment when Marritza breaks down and starts crying is possibly my favourite moment of the series, to be honest. Very powerful.

November 10 2011, 03:37 AM	#257
MrBorg Lieutenant Commander Location: Cube 0398, Grid 343	Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine The next episode is where DS9 starts to get good. I look forward to your review of it! __________________ For Cardassia!

November 10 2011, 12:00 PM	#258
Admiral Shran Admiral Location: In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago	Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine ^ Indeed, the return of the Cardassians. __________________ Vote Obomney 2012! "All governments suffer a recurring problem: power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that it's magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert, Dune

November 10 2011, 12:43 PM	#259
M Vice Admiral	Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine Hm, first time I really disagree with you, TGB: I loved "Dramatis Personae"! It's one of the better episodes of the first season. Granted, the conflict is a purely superficial one, but I like the way the mutiny unfolds and how everyone is more or less driven to one side of the opposing parties. It's kind of a what if story, where we see the natural conflicts between the characters driven to the maximum. __________________ Bashir: »Out of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?« Garak: »My dear doctor, they're all true.« Bashir: »Even the lies?« Garak: »Especially the lies.«

November 10 2011, 04:52 PM	#260
TheGodBen Rear Admiral Location: Ireland	Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine The problem with treating it as a "what if" story is that the characters aren't really themselves. And it's not that the virus thing amplified parts of their personalities, it seems to have completely replaced their existing ones. You may as well call Sisko by a completely different name as whoever was in this episode wasn't him. Duet (*) This has to be one of the most overrated episode of Trek ever. It's not bad, it's just not that masterpiece that some make it out to be, and people tend to gloss over some of the plot-holes because they're so mesmerised by Darhe'el's ridiculously evil rant. But the biggest problem with this episode is that it's too complicated. A good episode of television shouldn't leave you guessing as to how it will end, it should be apparent within the first five minutes of the show. There are too many twists and turns in this episode to make it enjoyable. No, I'm not insane, I'm just lying. I thought I'd have my fun with all of you before posting a real review. I'm too lazy to type up any more nonsense about this episode, so here's the lyrics from Copacabana to make this fake review look real at first glance. Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl. With yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there. She would merengue and do the cha-cha and while she tried to be a star, Tony always tended bar. Across a crowded floor, they worked from 8 till 4, they were young and they had each other. Who could ask for more? At the Copa, Copacabana, the hottest spot north of Havana. At the Copa, Copacabana, music and passion were always the fashion at the Copa....they fell in love. His name was Rico, he wore a diamond. He was escorted to his chair, he saw Lola dancin' there and when she finished, he called her over. But Rico went a bit too far, Tony sailed across the bar and then the punches flew and chairs were smashed in two. There was blood and a single gun shot, but just who shot who? At the Copa, Copacabana, the hottest spot north of Havana. At the Copa, Copacabana, music and passion were always the fashion at the Copa....she lost her love. Her name is Lola, she was a showgirl. But that was 30 years ago, when they used to have a show. Now it's a disco, but not for Lola, still in the dress she used to wear, faded feathers in her hair. She sits there so refined, and drinks herself half-blind. She lost her youth and she lost her Tony, now she's lost her mind! At the Copa, Copacabana, the hottest spot north of Havana. At the Copa, Copacabana, music and passion were always the fashion at the Copa....don't fall in love. Form of... a cocktail umbrella: 7 __________________ ...so many different suns...**

November 10 2011, 08:14 PM	#261
DonIago Rear Admiral Location: Burlington, VT, USA	Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine Bah, that was a disappointing review. __________________ --DonIago It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek... "If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"

STAR TREK

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ABOUT US

November 10 2011, 09:42 PM	#262
Seven of Five Commodore Location: Staffordshire, United Kingdom	Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine I always thought that the Bajor/Cardassia confict started over I've Got A Lovely Bunch Of Coconuts, but now I know the truth. __________________ I love how coffee makes me feel. It's like my heart is trying to hug my brain!

November 10 2011, 09:59 PM	#263
junxon Fleet Captain Location: I'm a Romulan now. Romulans are cool	Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine are you going to do a proper review then? __________________ I'm your Venus, I'm your fire, At your desire, Captain. - Mr Spock Hello to Jason Isaacs!

November 10 2011, 11:48 PM	#266
TheGodBen Rear Admiral Location: Ireland	Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine Duet (***) I was wary going into this episode. I knew that it was good, but I also knew that the reputation of the episode was such that if it didn't get all 5 stars some people would declare me a heretic and chase me out of the forum. So I'm glad that this really is a 5 star episode, that makes my life simpler. It is, quite simply, a masterpiece. Even knowing the way the plot will unfold, the episode still manages to be engaging. In the beginning it seems like we're being set up for a lesson about tolerance and objectivity for Kira, and I guess that's what the episode is in a way, but it's also so much more. The episode has political intrigue, an examination of the nature of evil, and the tragedy of Marritza. While most of the episode focuses on Kira and Marritza, it starts out by putting Sisko in the tricky position of trying to stick up for justice while being put under pressure by a government that only wants vengeance. The episode could have been about that alone and it would have been good, but here it's just part of a larger puzzle. The meat of the story comes in the various scenes between Kira and Marritza. At first, Marritza makes some good points about Kira and he seems like the calm, rational one in the room, and even though he's clearly racist towards Bajorans, Kira is just as racist towards Cardassians. Then we get those powerful scenes where Marritza "admits" to being Darhe'el and goes off on long, insane rants about how the Bajorans are a lesser race, unworthy of any decency or respect. It's raw, it's brutal, and it's horrific, all the more so because at times he makes good points. You can't bring back the dead, you can't undo the things that Darhe'el has done, the justice of seeing him pay for his crimes would be a hollow victory in many ways. Then we come to their closing scenes together where Marritza finally breaks down and admits the truth. Those of you that know me know that I'm cynical and manly, so it takes a lot to bring me to tears. This episode didn't, but it's the closest I've come all, oh, let's just say week. Everything in this episode works, it is a finely crafted piece of drama. The story, the dialogue, the acting, all that stuff clicks. Pretty much all the scenes are worthwhile, except perhaps for the Quark scene, which felt like they were trying to shoehorn him into the episode, but even that's not too bad. This is easily the best episode of the season, and one of the best of the whole show. Even its stellar reputation doesn't harm it, it meets those expectations and still manages to rise further above them. __________________ ...so many different suns...**

November 10 2011, 11:56 PM	#267
MrBorg Lieutenant Commander Location: Cube 0398, Grid 343	Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine readies pitchfork HERETI- scrolls down a bit Oh. Good episode. Good review, as well. __________________ For Cardassia!

November 10 2011, 11:57 PM	#268
DonIago Rear Admiral Location: Burlington, VT, USA	Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine Much better. __________________ --DonIago It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek... "If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"

November 11 2011, 12:10 AM	#269
Son of Quark Lieutenant Location: San Antonio, Texas	TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine "Duet" is one of the best ever Deep Space Nine episodes. Harris Yulin who played Marritza did one of the best acting jobs I have ever seen. Pretty hardcore episode. __________________ Axes Grind and Maces Clash!

November 11 2011, 12:51 AM	#270
Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Location: Warped off into the sunset. With fond memories of most of you, and not a little sorrow at leaving.	Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine The moment when Marritza breaks down and starts crying is possibly my favourite moment of the series, to be honest. Very powerful. __________________ We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.