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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old November 7 2011, 11:48 PM   #256
Captain Robert April
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Trapped in their quarters by the nefarious PLOT DEVICE!!!
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Old November 8 2011, 02:10 AM   #257
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Mytran wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
Counting up from the bottom, relative to--something?
As late as "Day of the Dove", it seems that some writers counted from bottom to top. Kirk and pals hold the bridge of the ship, and supposedly the other top decks as well - "All sections above". Klingons in turn are said to be holding Deck 6 and half of Deck 7 - and it would make rather limited sense for the Klingons and the heroes to be contesting a deck that's below a totally Klingon-controlled deck!
Timo Saloniemi
However, 90% of the crew were sealed off "below decks" as well. If the Klingons occupied the lower parts of the ship and Kirk's gang all levels above, where on earth were the missing crew?
Good question. If we assume Deck 1 was top then:
KIRK: What the blazes is going on?

SPOCK: Scans indicate that our forces and those of the Klingons are exactly equal at thirty eight each. The Klingons control deck six and starboard deck seven, while we control all sections above.
could be interpreted that the uncontrolled decks below deck 7 (and port deck seven) contain trapped Enterprise crewmembers.

Now, if Deck 6 and parts of Deck 7 are the lower parts of the saucer then that would indicate uncontrolled passages going down the neck to the engineering hull and that would be where the main fighting is occurring for strategic control of the ship, IMHO. Also, it's pretty easy to have 390+ crewmen trapped below deck 7 spread across 12-13 decks.

The final fight in the engineering hull would indicate that both sides could get to the engine room uncontested.
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Old November 8 2011, 03:38 AM   #258
Albertese
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Re: TOS Nacelles

blssdwlf wrote: View Post

...


The final fight in the engineering hull would indicate that both sides could get to the engine room uncontested.
Or...

It could mean that someone involved behind the scenes thought the Engineering set lived in the saucer right in front of the impulse engines. In which case we might go ahead and speculate there is an engineering-like area right about there.

OTOH, at the end of the episode, we see the pinwheel of doom fly away into space from roughly the middle of the ship's second hull, which would seem to indicate that someone involved behind the scenes did indeed think the engineering set was down there after all.

I figure the majority of the hull's pressure compartments were rendered inescapable by the evil pinwheel but the ship's vital areas were still connected by unaffected areas. This way, a path can indeed be traced from the bridge to the Engineering Room down in the Engineering Section, and the 300+ other Enterprise crew were indeed trapped in the sense that they were trapped in whatever pressure compartment they happened to be in when this whole pinwheel affair began.

That's my take on it anyway.

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Old November 8 2011, 10:46 AM   #259
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Timo wrote: View Post
To be fair, there was no turbolift "ride" as such. There was merely a long scene inside a turbolift - without any visual or auditory indication that the lift was moving. Basically a repeat of the Kirk/Saavik scene of ST2, then...

Timo Saloniemi
Wrong.

See The Enterprise Incident online at the official location, at http://www.startrek.com/watch_episod...q4YtPa3oAVhwuc. (You will have to endure some commercials to do so.) The turbo lift is in motion for a whole minute, beginning around 47:15. Spock says "Deck Two." The "turbolift in motion" sound cranks up, remains on for a full minute, and then winds down at the end of the ride. You can see the deck markers scrolling by when they are in the camera's field of view, for the first part of that minute. Only the most elaborate gesticulations of handwaving can make it seem otherwise. This was something I noticed over 30 years ago.
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Old November 8 2011, 12:03 PM   #260
Timo
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Trust me, I've been through it, too.

The visual indications of movement disappear almost immediately, thanks to the framing choices. Whether the audio of the lift really is audible really depends on your volume settings... (And it could be very simply handwaved by saying that the lift hums regardless of motion state, perhaps because of other lifts passing. But it's even simpler to just ignore the sound, which my old VHS doesn't reproduce anyway.)

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Old November 8 2011, 12:45 PM   #261
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Yes, the visual indications of movement disappear after how many graduation lines pass by? 1...2...3...4...5. Five lines. Like I said, elaborate handwaving is the only way out of this problem. Translation: something far-fetched. They goofed, man, pure and simple. In this episode, for whatever reason, Deck Two just isn't the next deck down from the bridge.
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Old November 8 2011, 02:53 PM   #262
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Nacelles

What do those graduation lines mean though?

In "Corbomite Maneuver" Kirk goes from sickbay to turbolift and then goes up past 30 lines while talking to the bridge and changes his mind to go change.

In "Amok Time" I counted at least 23 on screen lines go by as they go from the bridge to Deck 5 (and there are lots of gaps for more.)

In "Elaan of Troyius", I counted at least 21 lines as they traveled down to Deck 5 and then a bunch more lines as they traveled horizontally.

In "Where No Man Has Gone Before", the lines were very closely spaced together suggesting a different line arrangement.
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Old November 8 2011, 03:15 PM   #263
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Who knows what they mean. If someone volunteers the obvious suggestion that when the car is descending or ascending they are lines representing deck boundaries, then someone else will point out how so and so episode contradicts that idea.

The fact is, the time spent in the elevator is largely a function of how long the conversation takes. At least in The Wrath of Khan, they had Saavik take the trouble to stop the elevator and then went a step further and made fun of the cliché by having the doors open to an irate McCoy. It was a good moment.

In any case, if we want a consistent ship that does not quantum-fluctuate between alternate realities when going from episode to episode, we just kinda have to plug our ears when Spock says "Deck Two" there, as far as I'm concerned.
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Old November 8 2011, 03:33 PM   #264
Mytran
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Re: TOS Nacelles

I've always felt that the Turbolift markers are there to provide an indication of direction rather than an accurate demonstration of decks passing by.

In a related note, there are relatively few occasions where we can actually use the time it takes from one location to another to accurately measure potential distances within the ship (since any Turbolift ride can be affected by other cars in the tubes). So, only on occassions where the ship is totally empty (Ultimate Computer, By Any Other Name) so we get any indication of how large the ship really is. But that's just for fun

With regards to the ship having "Deck 1" at the bottom, while it might help ease the issues in Day Of The Dove and the whole "Deck 12" thing, it runs into problems when Kirk's quarters relocate to "Deck 5", as he's back in the Engineering Hull again! Also, Elaan of Troius establish Sick Bay as being on "Deck 5" and "The safest place on the ship". If Deck 5 is in the centre of the saucer that statement makes sense - less so if "Deck 5" is in the Secondary Hull.

And so what if Deck 2 takes a long time to get to, even if below the bridge - maybe there was a traffic jam!
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Old November 8 2011, 03:35 PM   #265
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Re: TOS Nacelles

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
The fact is, the time spent in the elevator is largely a function of how long the conversation takes. At least in The Wrath of Khan, they had Saavik take the trouble to stop the elevator and then went a step further and made fun of the cliché by having the doors open to an irate McCoy. It was a good moment.
I agree. It should be noted that the doors on board are also conversation - sensitive as well, knowing exactly when to open regardless of how close someone stands!
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Old November 8 2011, 03:36 PM   #266
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Mytran wrote: View Post
And so what if Deck 2 takes a long time to get to, even if below the bridge - maybe there was a traffic jam!
Or they just took the scenic route!
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Old November 8 2011, 04:45 PM   #267
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Nacelles

We only saw 5 lines go by and for the duration of the conversation the motion indicator showed no more motion. I could not tell if Spock was holding one of the handles or not. Otherwise what is inconsistent with this scene again?
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Old November 8 2011, 04:58 PM   #268
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Re: TOS Nacelles

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
We only saw 5 lines go by and for the duration of the conversation the motion indicator showed no more motion. I could not tell if Spock was holding one of the handles or not. Otherwise what is inconsistent with this scene again?
Wrong.

If you'd actually watched the scene, you would know that the motion indicator is no longer on camera once five lines go by. After that, for the rest of the scene in the elevator, the camera alternates between close-ups of Spock and of the Romulan commander. Once it starts up, the elevator-in-motion sound is clearly audible for the whole scene, until it winds down at the end. But now I am just repeating myself.

Why don't we move on to disagreeing about something else? I'm sure in the course of further discussion about nacelles, we will have plenty of opportunity for honest disagreement.
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Old November 8 2011, 05:07 PM   #269
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Nacelles

I can see the motion indicators in the background. Can you double check?
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Old November 8 2011, 05:13 PM   #270
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Re: TOS Nacelles

I've quadruple checked at CBS.com; maybe they cropped the image. I'll check with DVD when I have access to my disk and player.
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