Grimm (NBC) Season 1 Discussion *Spoilers!*

[Enterprise is Great]

In week two Monroe the reformed Big Bad Wolf is still the best part of the show. I think the show would be better if Monroe was Nick's partner on the police force. He adds some much needed humor and life to the show. Then they could skip the "I need to hide my true identity from my partner bit" which is way past tiresome by now. It's old guys lay off it for awhile...ok? (Hopefully Nick let's his partner in on it in the near future.) Right now the partner is kind of just a lump. Well, aren't most the character so far? They need more fleshing out. More life as they're too stiff.

The guy playing Nick was less stiff this week than in the pilot. I think he'll improve as the series continues.

Aunt Marie was good...too bad she kicked the bucket...but at least she kicked ass doing so.

[RJDiogenes]

startrekwatcher wrote:

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I've gone on record stating that I'm not inherently opposed to episodic tv--some of my favorite shows have been based purely on that format however over the last decade it has become abundantly clear that the current crop of writers in television really can't be as creative in coming up with fresh unpredictable episodic stories.

I agree. Writing a self-contained and consistent story is apparently out of fashion now, both with the current crop of writers and the current audience. The problem isn't that arc-based storytelling is bad-- I like a lot of those shows you mentioned-- it's just that it can be, and often is, just as lazy as cliched episodic writing. The writers will throw razzle-dazzle at people to get them talking around the water cooler, but ultimately they're not up to creating a worthwhile payoff. Lost is the ultimate example of that; great show with a disastrous ending. I'd like to see a show with a good cast of interesting and likeable characters that are involved in good stories every week (or whenever). Sherlock Holmes did it, The Shadow did it, Star Trek did it, Monk did it; no reason it can't be done now.

[stj]

sojourner wrote:

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What makes you think Grimm isn't human??

Witches have familiars, wizards have demons, magic spells have their own power. Humans don't have magic powers. Nick has a magic power, ergo Nick is not exactly human. Yet he hasn't quite noticed (at least not while I was watching.) It would be the first thing on my mind if I discovered my self image was so incomplete and misleading. This obliviousness is why Nick seems so dull to most people maybe. Heroes shouldn't be oblivious to the obvious, stupidity is not attractive, and this show is not about Nick's self-discovery as he grows up. Certainly the cluelessness is why I personally can't invest in Nick.

[sojourner]

stj wrote:

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Witches have familiars, wizards have demons, magic spells have their own power. Humans don't have magic powers. Nick has a magic power, ergo Nick is not exactly human.

Where was any of that established in the 2 episodes shown????
He's human until something on the show says he's not.

[24thcenstfan]

So far I am enjoying the show. I will be sticking with it for now.

[Temis the Vorta]

Enterprise is Great wrote:

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In week two Monroe the reformed Big Bad Wolf is still the best part of the show. I think the show would be better if Monroe was Nick's partner on the police force.

Yep, and the show could also use a few more recurring characters in the vein of Monroe - supernatural critters who aren't just running amok or being secretly villainous, but are trying various ways to adapt themselves to modern life, and are played by fun character actors.

The guy playing Nick was less stiff this week than in the pilot. I think he'll improve as the series continues.

He's very cute. I'm inclined to be patient with him. Nick needs to be the straight man surrounded by a zany zoo of supernatural characters, some of which are woven in and out of the ongoing plotline.

I'd like to see a show with a good cast of interesting and likeable characters that are involved in good stories every week (or whenever). Sherlock Holmes did it, The Shadow did it, Star Trek did it, Monk did it; no reason it can't be done now.

Three examples over nearly 60 years! I'm not holding my breath for writing that good. Every episodic show I try to get into (this one, Person of Interest) has the same problem: I already know all the cliches.

The real problem is that this show isn't on cable. If it were, it could do what American Horror Story is doing, just throw a bunch of insane shit at us to cover up for the fact that the writing is mediocre.

[RJDiogenes]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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Three examples over nearly 60 years! I'm not holding my breath for writing that good. Every episodic show I try to get into (this one, Person of Interest) has the same problem: I already know all the cliches.

Well, yeah, three examples-- not a complete list. There's also Doc Savage, Lone Ranger, Doctor Quatermass, Sheena, Green Hornet, Fantastic Four, Gunsmoke, Six-Million Dollar Man, Tales of the Gold Monkey, Friday the 13th: The Series, and so on, ad almost infinitum.

I saw episode two today, and it was pretty solid. The Blutblod is a riot; he reminds me of the Geico cavemen, and he came through despite his bitching. The Bear family was interesting, and presented a nice allegory to the eternal problem of tradition versus progress. The criminal couple were also interesting; cavalier youth with genuine loyalty and devotion to each other. I still don't know if I can find the time to watch on a regular basis, but so far this is a good show that deserves a following.

I also like the enriched color palette that they use; not only does it evoke the Fairy Tale premise, but it's a nice change from the muted palette so fashionable over the past few years.

[Temis the Vorta]

I missed every single show on that list, but I can't help but notice that it's not exactly recent. If there are writers capable of doing non-cliched episodic writing, it would help if they were still currently working in the business. Maybe they've retired and been replaced by hacks?

How about an example of a currently airing episodic series that isn't being dragged down by cliches? I've sampled Terra Nova and Persons of Interest, and while I find the latter tolerable enough to watch, it's not my idea of great TV.

[MilleniumLance]

i just saw the second ep, he friggin sidekicked a bear a good ways, im guessing since auntie died he is getting his super strength?!

[RJDiogenes]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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I missed every single show on that list, but I can't help but notice that it's not exactly recent. If there are writers capable of doing non-cliched episodic writing, it would help if they were still currently working in the business. Maybe they've retired and been replaced by hacks?

No, the examples aren't recent; that's pretty much my point. Episodic storytelling is out of fashion (in TV) and the current generation of TV writers are (generally speaking) not really up to it when they try it.

[Temis the Vorta]

Episodic writing is very much in fashion, just look at the ratings, but it's been taken over by hacks. All the good writers have fled to the serialized form. Hence, I avoid episodic shows. That's sort of what we've been saying...

[RJDiogenes]

Everything I see is serialized.

[Temis the Vorta]

What about all the cop/doctor/lawyer shows (that I never watch, but I'm sure some if not all are episodic) not to mention half-hour sitcoms, which I'm sure are still episodic like they've always been. That stuff makes up the vast majority of scripted shows on broadcast; everything else is either reality TV or the few outliers like Once Upon a Time and Pan Am.

[RJDiogenes]

Well, I wasn't counting sitcoms. I never watch the cop/lawyer/doctor shows, either. Except Bones, which could be seen as both serialized and episodic; there is a one-shot mystery in every episode, but it always relates the underlying story of the developing characters and relationships.

So, I suppose most shows might still be episodic. Not genre stuff, though.

[Temis the Vorta]

Genre stuff has a hard time surviving on broadcast, and cable certainly skews serialized. Broadcast and cable are just following what their respective audiences want. So if you like episodic shows, you're going to have to start liking cops/doctors/lawyers and sitcoms.

Or maybe all this YouTube TV stuff will take off, and we'll all be able to get the micro-niche stuff we want. You can have your episodic fantasy, and I can have heavily serialized space opera with a grittiness factor that hits midway between DS9 and nuBSG. Exactly midway, not 25% or 75%, exactly.