Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight - Page 2

Trekker4747 · November 3 2011, 04:22 PM

Yeah, I'm not quite sure what the end-game of that was and at times it seems like the characters only know as much as the audience knows -that Gordon is dead. I mean, otherwise, why would Batman stake-out the Gordon household and take the abuse from his "widow" and look so beaten up over it? Wasn't this his plan?!

Flying Spaghetti Monster · November 3 2011, 04:44 PM

I love the film in many ways, but this plot, like every other plot in the film, is so trimmed down. Nolan is an efficient story-teller, almost too efficient. I mean, many scenes happen before we get a chance to register what we are seeing, and they are over. Like there is a scene where a bunch of people are standing next to the batsignal waiting for him - I think they are cops, but I can't remember if they are from Gordon's MCU or another division (these distinctions seem more important to the film than they actually are) because the shot is less than five seconds.

Trekker4747 · November 3 2011, 04:56 PM

I think it that scene it was all of the cops, watching for Gordon to destroy the Batsignal as the police now believe Batman is a cop-killer and would want to see the signal (and the police's "co-operation" with Batman) destroyed. The Joker and Two-Face had killed some police in their antics.

Flying Spaghetti Monster · November 3 2011, 05:31 PM

No they were clearly waiting for Batman. The signal was on. And then one guy says "he doesn't wanna talk to us" and another guy says "god help whoever he does wanna talk to" and the cut to Batman out to find Eric Roberts

Trekker4747 · November 3 2011, 05:47 PM

Oh, that scene. I thought you were talking about the montage at the end when Gordon smashes the Batsignal. I'm pretty sure those guys were MCU, they're all people Harvey Dent latter kills/confronts over the death of Rachel, people whom he criticized Gordon for using when they had all been investigated by Dent when he worked for IA.

Flying Spaghetti Monster · November 3 2011, 05:56 PM

yeah that's what I thought. Nolan couldn't bother to show us the scene.. it's only three seconds.. it's like the whole movie aside from the prologue is a montage.

Broccoli · November 3 2011, 07:03 PM

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote:

I love the film too, but it feels like more of a series of set-pieces wherein editing has taken over for a true narrative through-line.

Yep.

davejames · November 4 2011, 12:55 AM

Trekker4747 wrote:

Yeah, I'm not quite sure what the end-game of that was and at times it seems like the characters only know as much as the audience knows -that Gordon is dead. I mean, otherwise, why would Batman stake-out the Gordon household and take the abuse from his "widow" and look so beaten up over it? Wasn't this his plan?!

To be honest I was kinda disappointed that it WAS just a ruse. For a minute there it really felt like Nolan was doing something bold and unexpected by killing off such an established character, and it really made me sit up and think "holy shit, anything can happen in this movie now!"

The reveal that Gordon was the one driving the truck was certainly a good one, but I also can't help but be a bit disappointed that Nolan didn't try to shake things up more than he did.

Trekker4747 · November 4 2011, 01:01 AM

Nah, there's no way they would have killed Gordon, especially before he was made Police Commissioner; he's too much a part of the Batman lore/mythos. That's a flaw the Burton/Shumacher films had: an under use of Gordon.

Hartzilla2007 · November 4 2011, 01:06 AM

davejames wrote:

Trekker4747 wrote:

Yeah, I'm not quite sure what the end-game of that was and at times it seems like the characters only know as much as the audience knows -that Gordon is dead. I mean, otherwise, why would Batman stake-out the Gordon household and take the abuse from his "widow" and look so beaten up over it? Wasn't this his plan?!

To be honest I was kinda disappointed that it WAS just a ruse. For a minute there it really felt like Nolan was doing something bold and unexpected by killing off such an established character, and it really made me sit up and think "holy shit, anything can happen in this movie now!"

The reveal that Gordon was the one driving the truck was certainly a good one, but I also can't help but be a bit disappointed that Nolan didn't try to shake things up more than he did.

To be far Two-face probably IS dead.

Set Harth · November 4 2011, 01:34 AM

He's dead, Jim.

Captaindemotion · November 4 2011, 04:30 PM

davejames wrote:

Trekker4747 wrote:

Yeah, I'm not quite sure what the end-game of that was and at times it seems like the characters only know as much as the audience knows -that Gordon is dead. I mean, otherwise, why would Batman stake-out the Gordon household and take the abuse from his "widow" and look so beaten up over it? Wasn't this his plan?!

To be honest I was kinda disappointed that it WAS just a ruse. For a minute there it really felt like Nolan was doing something bold and unexpected by killing off such an established character, and it really made me sit up and think "holy shit, anything can happen in this movie now!"

The reveal that Gordon was the one driving the truck was certainly a good one, but I also can't help but be a bit disappointed that Nolan didn't try to shake things up more than he did.

I'd actually read shortly before seeing the movie that Gary Oldman wanted out of his contract. So I was prepared to believe that Gordon was dead, comic continuity or significance bedammned. I thought the whole sequence worked really well.

In hindsight, I've wondered if the story about Oldman, who as we know is back for TDKR, was planted by the movie-makers to fool people like me.

davejames · November 4 2011, 05:40 PM

Trekker4747 wrote:

Nah, there's no way they would have killed Gordon, especially before he was made Police Commissioner; he's too much a part of the Batman lore/mythos. That's a flaw the Burton/Shumacher films had: an under use of Gordon.

True, but we knew Nolan was only going to be making 2 or 3 of these movies, and then the story would most likely be rebooted yet again with a new style and director. So why NOT do something really big and shocking, and shake things up?

(Of course I also think the movie wimped out by not having the people on the ferry blow themselves up, so maybe I just have a weakness for really dark and tragic endings. lol)

Set Harth · November 4 2011, 08:21 PM

I can buy the ferry with the "normal people" not blowing up the other boat. Maybe. With some degree of squinting. Perhaps.

But the prisoners so totally would have nuked the other boat.

That's why they're prisoners in the first place.

They're not nice people.

Trekker4747 · November 4 2011, 08:58 PM

Set Harth wrote:

I can buy the ferry with the "normal people" not blowing up the other boat. Maybe. With some degree of squinting. Perhaps.

But the prisoners so totally would have nuked the other boat.

That's why they're prisoners in the first place.

They're not nice people.

Well... First off the prisoners didn't have control of the detonator, the warden/police did and were holding the prisoners at bay with weapons. Saying prisoners "aren't nice people" is sort of mis-representing prisoners they could be any mix of people imprisoned for any number of reasons. And I actually liked what happened on the prisoner side of things with the guy taking the detonator and just tossing it out the window.

November 3 2011, 04:22 PM	#16
Trekker4747 To boldly go... Location: Kansas City	Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight Yeah, I'm not quite sure what the end-game of that was and at times it seems like the characters only know as much as the audience knows -that Gordon is dead. I mean, otherwise, why would Batman stake-out the Gordon household and take the abuse from his "widow" and look so beaten up over it? Wasn't this his plan?!

November 3 2011, 04:44 PM	#17
Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Location: Flying Spaghetti Western	Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight I love the film in many ways, but this plot, like every other plot in the film, is so trimmed down. Nolan is an efficient story-teller, almost too efficient. I mean, many scenes happen before we get a chance to register what we are seeing, and they are over. Like there is a scene where a bunch of people are standing next to the batsignal waiting for him - I think they are cops, but I can't remember if they are from Gordon's MCU or another division (these distinctions seem more important to the film than they actually are) because the shot is less than five seconds. __________________ *"This is a violation of the ruddy Incarceration Act... and I will not be the subject of criminal abuse!!"*

November 3 2011, 04:56 PM	#18
Trekker4747 To boldly go... Location: Kansas City	Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight I think it that scene it was all of the cops, watching for Gordon to destroy the Batsignal as the police now believe Batman is a cop-killer and would want to see the signal (and the police's "co-operation" with Batman) destroyed. The Joker and Two-Face had killed some police in their antics.

November 3 2011, 05:31 PM	#19
Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Location: Flying Spaghetti Western	Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight No they were clearly waiting for Batman. The signal was on. And then one guy says "he doesn't wanna talk to us" and another guy says "god help whoever he does wanna talk to" and the cut to Batman out to find Eric Roberts __________________ *"This is a violation of the ruddy Incarceration Act... and I will not be the subject of criminal abuse!!"*

November 3 2011, 05:47 PM	#20
Trekker4747 To boldly go... Location: Kansas City	Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight Oh, that scene. I thought you were talking about the montage at the end when Gordon smashes the Batsignal. I'm pretty sure those guys were MCU, they're all people Harvey Dent latter kills/confronts over the death of Rachel, people whom he criticized Gordon for using when they had all been investigated by Dent when he worked for IA.

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November 3 2011, 05:56 PM	#21
Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Location: Flying Spaghetti Western	Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight yeah that's what I thought. Nolan couldn't bother to show us the scene.. it's only three seconds.. it's like the whole movie aside from the prologue is a montage. __________________ *"This is a violation of the ruddy Incarceration Act... and I will not be the subject of criminal abuse!!"*

November 4 2011, 01:01 AM	#24
Trekker4747 To boldly go... Location: Kansas City	Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight Nah, there's no way they would have killed Gordon, especially before he was made Police Commissioner; he's too much a part of the Batman lore/mythos. That's a flaw the Burton/Shumacher films had: an under use of Gordon.

November 4 2011, 01:34 AM	#26
Set Harth Rear Admiral Location: Ekkaia	Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight He's dead, Jim. __________________ "Your grandfather called me a ronin. A samurai without a master. Who has no reason to live." "Was he right?"

November 4 2011, 08:21 PM	#29
Set Harth Rear Admiral Location: Ekkaia	Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight I can buy the ferry with the "normal people" not blowing up the other boat. Maybe. With some degree of squinting. Perhaps. But the prisoners so totally would have nuked the other boat. That's why they're prisoners in the first place. They're not nice people. __________________ "Your grandfather called me a ronin. A samurai without a master. Who has no reason to live." "Was he right?"