RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,374
Posts: 5,504,238
Members: 25,126
Currently online: 489
Newest member: Ted Dave

TrekToday headlines

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 12 2011, 05:55 PM   #16
datalogan
Lieutenant Commander
 
datalogan's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

In "Armageddon Game" I wonder just how much Bashir actually knows about the subspace transceiver that he's not letting on the O'Brien. Ultimately it doesn't matter, however, because it's not repairable anyway.
datalogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12 2011, 06:15 PM   #17
datalogan
Lieutenant Commander
 
datalogan's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

Most of the episode "Distant Voices" plays out in Bashir's genetically enhanced mind. Perhaps the only reason Bashir was able to defeat Altovar's attack was because Bashir was enhanced. It's interesting how even though Altovar is inside Bashir's mind, he still doesn't fully understand Bashir's status as a genetically enhanced man in hiding. (This is similar to when Rao Vantika was inside Bashir's head in "The Passenger".) Altovar confronts Bashir about his past failures – the way he quit tennis to become a doctor because his parents would not approve, the way he intentionally missed a question so he would be second rather than first in his class because of the pressure. What was it Bashir's parents didn't approve about tennis? Did they not want Julian to squander the gifts that they presumably paid good hard-earned curency for? Or were they worried that the life of a super-star tennis play would make it more likely that his genetically engineered status would be found out? And, as has been previously discussed, Bashir probably threw that fiber/nerve question not just to avoid the pressure of being valedictorian, but the pressure of possibly be found out as enhanced (and therefore a bit of a cheat).
datalogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13 2011, 11:03 AM   #18
JaxsBrokenHeart
Lieutenant
 
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

The genetic enhancement thing really does work well with Our Man Bashir especially at the end when Julian shoots at Garak and it seems like Bashir was willing to shoot him, but the bullet didn't hit.

In hindsight its obvious he intentionally missed as a warning and played it off like he meant to actually hit Garak (which given his gifts abilities would have been easy).
JaxsBrokenHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13 2011, 12:51 PM   #19
Ln X
Fleet Captain
 
Ln X's Avatar
 
Location: The great gig in the sky
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

Yeah many things about Bashir in DS9, before he was discovered to be genetically enhanced, seem a little odd. But then Bashir did do his best to hide his background, and not showing off was one of them. Still even with his genetically enhanced brain he was no engineer, as shown in that microchip scene in One Little Ship.

This explains why Bashir needed to be guided through repairing that subspace transceiver, in Armageddon Game, needed to be talked through the whole repair process by O'Brien.
__________________
Star Trek: The Approaching Shadow...

Caption contest: DS9
Ln X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2011, 07:21 PM   #20
defiantfan
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

I always thought the episode "HomeFront" gave the best clue when Odo offered to check on Bashir's family on Earth and Bashir quickly put the idea to rest. I remember thinking about that moment when I saw the revelation.
defiantfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3 2011, 05:19 AM   #21
CmndrSela318
Time Lordess From Gallifrey. [Commander]
 
CmndrSela318's Avatar
 
Location: Wishing Matt Smith was still playing The Doctor on Doctor Who.
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

I beg to differ with you, defiantfan. If Bashir being gentically enhanced had been planned from the start of the series, I think the season 3 episode 'Distant Voices' would've been the biggest give away. I don't think a human NOT genetically enhanced could've or would've survived that Lethean's telepathic attack.
__________________
STAR TREK: DS9 EPISODE "CARDASSIANS" GARAK QUOTE.
I believe in coincidences.
Coincidences happen every day.
But I don't trust coincidences.
CmndrSela318 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3 2011, 02:29 PM   #22
Flying Spaghetti Monster
Vice Admiral
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster's Avatar
 
Location: Flying Spaghetti Western
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

In "Dax" Bashir actually gets beaten up by one of Dax's kidnappers, a female who appears younger than he.
__________________
See, the problem is that you are using your cards to show me what cards you have, and if you can't see that this is viciously circular, then there is no point in continuing
Flying Spaghetti Monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3 2011, 05:14 PM   #23
St. William Of Levittown
Vice Admiral
 
St. William Of Levittown's Avatar
 
Location: Rush Limborg is prepping for Christmas on The EIB Network
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

^The dark side of chivalry, perhaps. He subconsciously couldn't bring himself to hold his own against a young woman. She might get injured....
__________________
"The saying implies but does not name the effective agency of its supposed utopia.... 'Needs and abilities' are, of course, subjective. So the operative statement may be reduced to 'the State shall take, the State shall give'."
--David Mamet
St. William Of Levittown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3 2011, 05:39 PM   #24
Flying Spaghetti Monster
Vice Admiral
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster's Avatar
 
Location: Flying Spaghetti Western
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

Sure, he might have hesitated but the way it was staged, the girl clearly bested him, knocking him into a wall. He is unconscious on the ground at the end of the teaser after fighting with her.
__________________
See, the problem is that you are using your cards to show me what cards you have, and if you can't see that this is viciously circular, then there is no point in continuing
Flying Spaghetti Monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4 2011, 12:55 AM   #25
Ln X
Fleet Captain
 
Ln X's Avatar
 
Location: The great gig in the sky
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

I think Bashir could have taken that ***** out if he hadn't hesitated, just because he couldn't bring himself to hit a women right in the face. How stupid was that? He could have been a real hero in front of Jadzia, saving her and all. Hell, according to Ezri, Jadzia slept with many men, so perhaps Bashir would have hit the jackpot (if you know what i mean) if he had knocked out all those (whoever they're called) aliens?
__________________
Star Trek: The Approaching Shadow...

Caption contest: DS9
Ln X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4 2011, 06:35 PM   #26
St. William Of Levittown
Vice Admiral
 
St. William Of Levittown's Avatar
 
Location: Rush Limborg is prepping for Christmas on The EIB Network
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

^Well, heck...how many times had Worf gotten his lights knocked out in TNG?
__________________
"The saying implies but does not name the effective agency of its supposed utopia.... 'Needs and abilities' are, of course, subjective. So the operative statement may be reduced to 'the State shall take, the State shall give'."
--David Mamet
St. William Of Levittown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 5 2011, 03:28 AM   #27
CmndrSela318
Time Lordess From Gallifrey. [Commander]
 
CmndrSela318's Avatar
 
Location: Wishing Matt Smith was still playing The Doctor on Doctor Who.
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

Being female, I like the fact that Bashir didn't hit that female alien.
We females have to stick together.

Seriously. I don't think it was "The dark side of chivalry" as Supreme Dittodrone (a.k.a. Rush Limborg) called it. I think Bashir was so stunned it was a female that he just froze. If it had been a guy, Bashir would've more than likely got him. In fact, I'd bet on it.
__________________
STAR TREK: DS9 EPISODE "CARDASSIANS" GARAK QUOTE.
I believe in coincidences.
Coincidences happen every day.
But I don't trust coincidences.
CmndrSela318 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 5 2011, 07:32 AM   #28
St. William Of Levittown
Vice Admiral
 
St. William Of Levittown's Avatar
 
Location: Rush Limborg is prepping for Christmas on The EIB Network
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

^That's...kinda what I said (not quite, but kind of)...but, okay....
__________________
"The saying implies but does not name the effective agency of its supposed utopia.... 'Needs and abilities' are, of course, subjective. So the operative statement may be reduced to 'the State shall take, the State shall give'."
--David Mamet
St. William Of Levittown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 5 2011, 08:24 AM   #29
AFEK ESLCAFE W
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Earth, 21st Century, The Real World!
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

CmndrSela_333 wrote: View Post
I beg to differ with you, defiantfan. If Bashir being gentically enhanced had been planned from the start of the series, I think the season 3 episode 'Distant Voices' would've been the biggest give away. I don't think a human NOT genetically enhanced could've or would've survived that Lethean's telepathic attack.
Not to mention the Lethean discovering his secret.
AFEK ESLCAFE W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8 2011, 07:11 AM   #30
Crewman6
Commodore
 
Location: Over Macho Grande
Re: Rewatching early DS9 knowing that Bashir is genetically enhanced

Though I'm a huge fan of Ron Moore's work on DS9, "Dr. Bashir, I presume" was a staggeringly gross miscalculation that almost - but not quite - ruined Bashir.

Unfortunately, the writers ran with some of the more awful implications later, when Bashir was shown to have a Vulcan-like mind, in addition to possessing all kinds of other extraordinary abilities (like being an expert at darts, etc.)

It is amazing, looking at those earlier seasons, how POORLY the concept fits in with Bashir as a character.

So, even though he was "hiding" his genetic enhancements, he became a professional tennis player? Um, not exactly keeping a low profile there, Julian....

And he is downright boastful and arrogant about his abilities, at least during season one. Again, one would think if he was TRULY keeping such a huge secret, he would be quiet and humble and self-effacing. Hell, he would probably FEEL insecure and humble because he knows his abilities were just handed to him and not truly "earned." He probably would have become an introverted loner, spending all hours in a quiet lab somewhere doing research, not a swaggering young hothead looking to show off.

It just doesn't jibe with the five years of personality we had seen up to that point, let alone the other details of his history.

What ARE we to make of episodes like "Armageddon Game" and "Hippocratic Oath" where Julian says he needs O'Brien's technical help. Was he faking that, too?

Ugh. It's a friggin' mess.

Unfortunately, I think Moore was very close to a good idea, but utterly botched in the execution.

What the episode SHOULD have been was this -

Julian DISCOVERS that he was genetically engineered by his parents throughout the course of that episode.

Suddenly, his entire world is shattered. All his accomplishments feel phony and hollow. He's devastated, furious and his parents and suddenly terrified of being found out.

That's REAL drama - more immediate, urgent, plausible and far, FAR more interesting than learning he was "hiding" his secret all these years.

Julian, even before the "reveal" of his enhanced abilities, was already a genius with terrific physical skills, too (remember, tennis professional). So there was no need to say he ALSO had a Vulcan mind and those other amazing abilities.

Even the "normal" Julian could have been the product of (subtler) engineering.

And an episode focusing on that revelation would have been awesome.

You blew it, Ron. You really blew it this time.
Crewman6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.