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Old October 31 2011, 06:25 PM   #196
Vendikarr
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

PsychoPere wrote: View Post
Ah, for some reason I didn't think about it from the most obvious perspective... Yes, that's an incredibly good point.


Also, for anyone who is interested in comparisons and contrasts with the comics: Otis did not die nearly this quickly after his introduction, nor through betrayal, in the comics. He was with the group for a decent amount of time before meeting his end.
True, but he never really had much of an impact. Anything he did after this point could easily be done by someone else.

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Old October 31 2011, 06:33 PM   #197
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Indeed. Taking Otis off the stage this early makes a lot of sense for many reasons: he didn't have much of an impact in the comics; his death here can have a big impact on various characters, not just Shane or Patricia; the cast is already pretty large; and so on.

As for the thought in spoiler code: Yeah, I get that feeling, too, which has me a little disappointed because I quite liked that character.
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Old October 31 2011, 06:49 PM   #198
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

PsychoPere wrote: View Post
That was what I initially expected when Shane showed back up at the farm without Otis, and would've felt more or less in line with what little we knew about the television version of the character. But, yeah, it was definitely a more dramatically interesting decision to have him betrayed by Shane.
I guess that's what we were supposed to think from Shane's explanation when he got back (although I couldn't make out half of what he was saying). Plus I thought it was a little odd that they didn't show what happened. Seemed like one of those "fast-forward to end" dramatic shortcuts they kept using on SGU.

I figured that what we were seeing was Shane skirting the dark side, getting over his problems with Rick's family by proving he was still willing to go through hell for them (and presumably coming out a better man). Although that hair-cutting sequence at the beginning seemed awfully dark and moody for such a conclusion.

Instead, we see Shane's trip to hell luring him into the dark side, into which he will probably continue to descend-- and the hair sequence suddenly fits a lot better.

Too bad, though.
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Old October 31 2011, 06:50 PM   #199
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

I don't think Shane was being completely altruistic. As much as he probably wanted to save Carl, I think it had more to do with his own survival than anything else.

We've seen how self-involved Shane can be, from still lusting after Lori even after Rick's return to nearly shooting Rick (almost literally in the back). I would have thought maybe he had moved on from Lori in this new season, but given the conversation he had with Lori in the first episode, he's clearly still wallowing in self-pity.

I think the show is building Shane as the kind of character that values himself above others, but that doesn't mean he's an outright horrible character (and even that sense of self-value is very realistic and even appropriate given the circumstances). He obviously cares about the other members of the group, including Rick, Lori and Carl, and it was very selfless of him to venture out with Otis (even if I suspect some of that might have been to appeal to Lori; or, as others have said, to be seen as a hero in her eyes).

If anything, Shane is becoming a very multi-faceted and complex character. He's not necessarily evil, but I think ultimately he's going to possibly start causing problems for the group in some shape or form some point down the line. Also, I thought shaving his head like that would attract more attention than just having that bald spot. He could easily explain that (zombies), but he's going to have a slightly more difficult time explaining his shaved head (unless he claims he did it for vanity reasons or whatever). I'm sure shaving his head was some kind of visual indicator for the direction Shane is heading, but it didn't make much sense in my eyes for practical reasons.
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Old October 31 2011, 07:06 PM   #200
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

All I could think of, leading up to the WTF moment was:

Rule #1 from Zombieland - CARDIO...

and the age old moniker (whether you're running from bears or zombies with other people around you) - You don't need to be the fastest, just the faster than the person behind you...
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Old October 31 2011, 07:53 PM   #201
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
I don't think Shane was being completely altruistic. As much as he probably wanted to save Carl, I think it had more to do with his own survival than anything else.
Shane did make an attempt to get Otis to take the bags, presumably on the assumption that he thought Otis had the better chance to get away. So the way I read the situation was about as tragic as can be imagined: there was no way both of them were going to survive and the one to survive would have to be the "worse" guy.

Carl's life depended on one of them staying behind as bait. Shane offered to be bait, Otis refused, because he's a better man than Shane, perhaps. That batted the ball into Shane's court, and he was the one who made the only decision he could have: since Otis wouldn't leave Shane as bait, Shane was forced to turn Otis into bait.

But geeze, couldn't Shane have shot the guy cleanly in the head? I guess we can chalk that up to Shane not being able to bring himself to kill an innocent person outright, being a sherrif and all, but it would have been the more merciful, not to mention efficient, option.

Otis almost kept Shane from getting away. I really can't see Shane being cold-blooded enough in that situation to rationally assess whether Otis would be better bait alive or dead. Shooting Otis in the foot is as much as he could bring himself to do, in a situation where there was no time to think anything through.

I don't think Shane is a bad guy at all, at least not right now. But I think he's going to become a case study in the burden that excessive guilt can place on the psyche. He'll never shake Lori's suspicion that he lied about Rick's death because it's impossible for Shane himself to ever know whether he was deluding himself that Rick had no heartbeat in the hospital. To try to overcome that guilt, he's heaped something worse on himself. I think we're going into Macbeth territory with him. Specifically, this:

"I am in blood
Stepp'd in so far, that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o'er."
-
Macbeth, Scene IV
Also, I thought shaving his head like that would attract more attention than just having that bald spot.
Something like that can be chalked up to the emotional trauma of seeing Otis eaten alive, even if nobody knows Shane was to blame, not to mention all the other trauma he and everyone else has endured. All these people are on edge emotionally and that can manifest itself in odd ways.

I'm sure shaving his head was some kind of visual indicator for the direction Shane is heading, but it didn't make much sense in my eyes for practical reasons.
I see it as mainly psychological rather than practical. He could tell everyone a zombie pulled out his hair in trying to grab him. Shaving his head is a recognition of guilt and penitence or a confirmation that he's planning to just keep wading across that river, Macbeth-style, or most interestingly: it's both.

Last edited by Temis the Vorta; October 31 2011 at 08:16 PM.
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Old October 31 2011, 08:19 PM   #202
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
Also, I thought shaving his head like that would attract more attention than just having that bald spot. He could easily explain that (zombies), but he's going to have a slightly more difficult time explaining his shaved head (unless he claims he did it for vanity reasons or whatever). I'm sure shaving his head was some kind of visual indicator for the direction Shane is heading, but it didn't make much sense in my eyes for practical reasons.
The bald spot is a constant reminder of what Shane did. Shaving his head gets rid of that reminder and MIGHT make it easier to live with.
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Old October 31 2011, 08:22 PM   #203
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

propita wrote: View Post
So ... Watching tonight's episode (10/30), Merle--whom I'm liking so much more than his brother and who seems much smarter--and Andrea go off in search of Sophia. They come across a zombie strung up. The person committed suicide after being bitten. The flesh on his legs, the only parts within reach, was eaten off.

Does this mean that zombies WILL eat other zombies? I'm assuming not, since they'd go after each other, I'd think. So he was eaten sometime after he hanged himself but before he zombied? That doesn't sound right on timing either. He was bitten and, upon hanging, died and zombied. That sounds like they ate a zombie. What am I missing?
Merle came back? Damn, I really disliked his character. I figured eventually he'd be back, and I've been dreading it, but, I was sure in hurry for it to happen

Now, I'm not nearly as excited about watching the episode tonight when I get home

Not sure how anyone could possibly like Merle better than Darryl, but, to each their own. Hopefully Merle comes up Zombie chow very quickly
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Old October 31 2011, 08:24 PM   #204
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

I think he means Darryl, not Merle.
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Old October 31 2011, 08:24 PM   #205
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

It's not Merle, it's Darryl. The poster accidentally switched names.
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Old October 31 2011, 08:25 PM   #206
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

sidious618 wrote: View Post
I think he means Darryl, not Merle.
Ah...OK, PHEW, that was a narrow escape due to mistaken identity
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Old October 31 2011, 09:10 PM   #207
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
Also, I thought shaving his head like that would attract more attention than just having that bald spot. He could easily explain that (zombies), but he's going to have a slightly more difficult time explaining his shaved head (unless he claims he did it for vanity reasons or whatever). I'm sure shaving his head was some kind of visual indicator for the direction Shane is heading, but it didn't make much sense in my eyes for practical reasons.
The bald spot is a constant reminder of what Shane did. Shaving his head gets rid of that reminder and MIGHT make it easier to live with.
Bingo. But now the shaved head will be a reminder. Shane is just moral enough to want to avoid the guilt and just dumb enough to think shaving his head will help.
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Old October 31 2011, 09:10 PM   #208
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

<merle> Whut kind o' narra escape y'all tawkin' bout? Y'all mean Ah didn't hafta cut ma hand off? Dadgum it! <merle>
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Old October 31 2011, 09:28 PM   #209
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
<merle> Whut kind o' narra escape y'all tawkin' bout? Y'all mean Ah didn't hafta cut ma hand off? Dadgum it! <merle>
Yea, ya shoulda cut yore head off, that woulda made it a clean getaway
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Old October 31 2011, 09:54 PM   #210
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

I don't think Shane shaving his head had anything to do with guilt. I think it had more to do with covering up the fact that he has a bald spot, but that's just my interpretation.
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