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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old October 24 2011, 08:12 AM   #106
Admiral Shran
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

The Blob wrote: View Post
The hunters looked like something out of a '50s B-movie.

Didn't they have some kind of bubble helmet?
Sort of....

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Old October 24 2011, 06:10 PM   #107
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I remember watching Captive Pursuit when it first aired here and thinking that the uniforms were tacky, but I was also kind of excited to see the uniforms because I imaged we'd be seeing more of these aliens in the future. I guess it wasn't to be.


Q-Less (*)

Some of you may remember that I made this video about Q during the dying days of my Voyager review thread, which has recently become a popular hang-out spot for bronies. The point I was trying to make with the video was that Q was at his best when he was using his powers to teach Picard an important lesson, and that Q's arc on Voyager was so poor because those episodes had Q learning important lessons from Janeway. It turns out that there's one thing worse than the way Voyager used Q and that is the way that DS9 used Q. He spends most of the episode hounding Vash for some inexplicable reason, and when he's not doing that he's shooting the breeze and pestering people. He's just there, he barely does anything. I guess you could say that I'm Q-less as to why Q is in this episode.

(Tee hee, I'm so witty. )

This episode loses a point for being TNG-lite. Not because it has the structure of a TNG episode, or because they didn't use some unique aspect of the show, but because this pretty much is a TNG episode. The two central characters in this one are Vash and Q, both of whom are TNG characters that never show their face on DS9 again, praise be to Zeus. DS9's characters feel like they've been relegated to a side plot, and a boring one at that, about technobabble. The weird thing is that the episode is self aware enough to reference the use of technobabble but not enough to realise how dramatically uninteresting it all is. In the end, Jadzia uses <tech> to find the cause of the <tech> which is revealed to be <tech> that turns into a glowing manta ray. I wish I was joking, but no, that's the plot.

The episode has two good scenes. The most obvious is the "I'm not Picard" scene, which is the only time when the "real" Sisko is apparent in this episode, the rest of the time he acts like a bored Avery Brooks. The other one is at the very beginning of the episode when Julian is hitting on the Bajoran woman at the replimat with his heroic story about his Starfleet medical exam. By itself, this scene would be obnoxious, what makes it memorable is O'Brien sitting in the background rolling his eyes at just how insufferable Bashir is being.

Sykonee's Counter: 8 (Q and Vash)
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Old October 24 2011, 07:00 PM   #108
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Totally agree. This episode was a horrible waste of Q and Vash - what was the point of them showing up on DS9 instead of TNG anyway? The only highlight was Sisko decking Q, which was hilarious. The other 99% of the episode though?

(All this season one eye-rolling is hurting my eyes! )

I'm glad that the writers seem to get all of this TNG-envy out of their systems by the end of the season. Technobabble was still a bit of a hinderance on DS9 but not as bad as at the moment.

As for the Hunters, they look a teeny bit like the Breen, if they had been made in the 80s. Or perhaps on Power Rangers. It's a shame the Breen are an Alpha Quadrant species, as that could have been an 'interesting' link.

Did I read somewhere that the DS9 writers hinted that the Tosk were some sort of genetically engineered gift for the Hunters from the Dominion?
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Last edited by Seven of Five; October 24 2011 at 07:48 PM.
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Old October 24 2011, 07:39 PM   #109
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

You are SO right about the Hunters looking like they belonged on Power Rangers. That or VR Troopers. (Oh, crap...did I just admit to knowing what that is? )

Wasn't that actually airing at the time?
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Old October 24 2011, 07:49 PM   #110
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

OMG you're onto something! DS9 didn't rip off B5 - it was VR Troopers!
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Old October 25 2011, 12:17 AM   #111
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Q-Less is my least favorite episode of season one, and therefore on my short list of worst episodes for the entire series.

Q showing up on the station and Sisko punching him out should have been the teaser, and then they should have filmed a real DS9 episode.
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Old October 25 2011, 01:00 AM   #112
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I liked Babel better than you did (or didn't dislike it as much as you did). The plot was thin but the character interaction saved it for me, and I found it interesting that, contrary to what you'd expect after seeing Emissary, the main villains in the next 3 episodes were all Bajorans: a nationalist extremist/terrorist, a black market criminal and a prejudiced lynch mob, and an unethical scientist who also turned out to be a selfish prick. (Of course, I loved the way Kira forced him to help.)

Right from the start, Bajorans were portrayed as a real, believable race that has all sorts of people within it - I don't think any other race in Trek has been that versatile, though Cardassians would later come close, also thanks to DS9. Bajorans really seem much closer to us, the real life humans, than the Trek Humans.
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Old October 25 2011, 02:14 AM   #113
Admiral Shran
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Ah, Q-Less. It was indeed a complete waste of Q, Vash, the DS9 characters and the DS9 premise.

I don't get the point of even having the episode in DS9. Obviously it was a ploy to attract TNG fans to the new series. But, if you're trying to attract fans to your show, why in God's name would you sideline everything that makes that show unique and instead focus attention on a misuse of the ploy characters?

Severed Fingers wrote: View Post
OMG you're onto something! DS9 didn't rip off B5
Absolutely. B5 ripped off DS9.

Let the flame wars begin!
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Old October 25 2011, 02:40 AM   #114
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I definitely agree that the TNG-lite nature of the episode knocks it down a bit, but I still thought it was goofy fun. Better than most of what Season One had to offer, anyway.
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Old October 25 2011, 03:09 AM   #115
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
I don't get the point of even having the episode in DS9. Obviously it was a ploy to attract TNG fans to the new series. But, if you're trying to attract fans to your show, why in God's name would you sideline everything that makes that show unique and instead focus attention on a misuse of the ploy characters?
According to RHW, his goal was to underscore the differences between the DS9 crew and the TNG crew, which, ironically, this episode probably does less well than the majority of other season one episodes.

However, if you watch the episode with that in mind, the original intent does come through occasionally, in moments such as Sisko's "I'm not Picard" line, and the quip about how the TNG crew would have figured out all the technobabble already.
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Old October 25 2011, 03:51 AM   #116
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Weren't the Hunters allegedly considered to be the navigators on Dominion ships or something?
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Old October 25 2011, 04:25 AM   #117
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
Right from the start, Bajorans were portrayed as a real, believable race that has all sorts of people within it - I don't think any other race in Trek has been that versatile, though Cardassians would later come close, also thanks to DS9. Bajorans really seem much closer to us, the real life humans, than the Trek Humans.
That they were. One of DS9's greatest strengths is that they didn't turn their races into "planets of hats" like the other shows did. Even Humans in the Trek-verse come across that way - though DS9 tried to change even that.
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Old October 25 2011, 04:41 AM   #118
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

mattyhugh wrote: View Post
Weren't the Hunters allegedly considered to be the navigators on Dominion ships or something?
As I recall, in Broken Link, the season 4 finale, a Hunter was originally supposed to be the one who pilots the Defiant to the Founder's homeworld. But that was scrapped in favor of a Jem'hadar.
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Old October 25 2011, 05:03 PM   #119
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Let the flame wars begin!



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Old October 25 2011, 05:36 PM   #120
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post

The episode has two good scenes. The most obvious is the "I'm not Picard" scene, which is the only time when the "real" Sisko is apparent in this episode, the rest of the time he acts like a bored Avery Brooks. The other one is at the very beginning of the episode when Julian is hitting on the Bajoran woman at the replimat with his heroic story about his Starfleet medical exam. By itself, this scene would be obnoxious, what makes it memorable is O'Brien sitting in the background rolling his eyes at just how insufferable Bashir is being.

Sykonee's Counter: 8 (Q and Vash)
Yes both scenes are great for the characters. I like your observations.
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