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Old October 23 2011, 04:27 AM   #1666
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Derishton wrote: View Post
I don't get the impression that Cornell thinks he's "stuck" on Demon Knights, which is one of the better titles in the 52. The only title I liked more was All-Star Western - Wonder Woman and Justice League Dark were good runners-up. That being said, Perez was a weird choice for Superman.

I was underwhelmed by the first issue of Justice League, but really liked the second issue - especially the Flash/Superman fight and the cell phone conversation. I might be the only person who thought that only seeing the end of Batman's ineffective attempts to throw stuff at Superman was actually quite effective story-telling.
I liked this too. After Issue One, I was a little afraid that the entire book would be one long fight scene. I was happy that this month's story had a bit of meat to it.

The only thing that I am really disappointed about here is that we are going back to the sixties and seventies in the sense that the team is overwhelmingly male. Black Canary at least should be on board and Zatanna should move over from Justice League Dark.
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Old October 23 2011, 04:35 AM   #1667
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

After he sucker punched the coolest guy in the world, and threw his ring away under the monitor desk, I think it was beetle who said "Why don't you just take the ring and we won't have to put up with Gardner any more?" to Which Batman replied "It would just get in the way."

However My Name is legion, consider all the dirt bags out there after a pay off that they are looking for some mark to shake down. If they had pictures of Bruce Wayne diddling a 12 year old, they'd be set for life.

Can you imagine all the people with dodgy photographs living off Michael Jackson before the shit hit the fan?
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Old October 23 2011, 04:48 AM   #1668
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
The only reason Bruce would concern himself with Corps affairs is if they interfered or intervened in Gotham. Other than that he would not bother with them, except maybe on a Justice League mission. Maybe. He has already weilded a Green Lantern and a Sinestro Corps ring before only to reject them both.
I dunno. The weird thing about Corps is that they an energy source and technology beyond humanity's wildest dreams, and they use it exclusively to fight other people with basically similar power sources and technologies. What about the brown skins, Green Lantern?
No thats not what they do exclusively.
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Old October 23 2011, 04:18 PM   #1669
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Derishton wrote: View Post
I don't get the impression that Cornell thinks he's "stuck" on Demon Knights, which is one of the better titles in the 52. The only title I liked more was All-Star Western - Wonder Woman and Justice League Dark were good runners-up. That being said, Perez was a weird choice for Superman.

I was underwhelmed by the first issue of Justice League,...
I share your opinion that Demon Knights and All-Star Western are among the better books of the relaunch. Both far exceeded my expectations, which frankly as good as Jonah Hex was before the relaunch(considering it's also the same creative team) they really pulled out a great story for their relaunch. I don't get the love for Action Comics at all though.

I too was underwhelmed with Justice League and am waiting on the TPB, it's my first drop. I even liked JLDark better, way better.
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Old October 23 2011, 04:26 PM   #1670
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Wereghost wrote: View Post
Vendikorpse wrote: View Post
This Bruce Wayne is probably in his late 20s/early 30s.
Hard to say. The pre-Flashpoint Batman was probably around late 30s (or early 40s going by this estimate). Batman does seem pretty much unchanged, with the exception of things like his relationship with Catwoman. The Killing Joke still happened (3 years previously) and so did all of the Robins. (Dick Grayson and Tim Drake are confirmed by name, and Batman makes a quip to Batwoman about sidekicks going insane.) I reckon that that he's within a few years either side of 35.
The numbers never make sense, it's pointless trying to add them up in a logical sense - he's whatever age they want him to be.
Agreed. Grant Morrison's way of deflecting that line of questioning is that it doesn't matter because they aren't real people. Ages don't matter as much as the stories and the characterizations.
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Old October 23 2011, 06:32 PM   #1671
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
The only reason Bruce would concern himself with Corps affairs is if they interfered or intervened in Gotham. Other than that he would not bother with them, except maybe on a Justice League mission. Maybe. He has already weilded a Green Lantern and a Sinestro Corps ring before only to reject them both.
I dunno. The weird thing about Corps is that they an energy source and technology beyond humanity's wildest dreams, and they use it exclusively to fight other people with basically similar power sources and technologies. What about the brown skins, Green Lantern?
If you think of the Corps as a paramilitary police organization dealing with external threats, it makes sense they wouldn't spend a lot of time with "on world" affairs. Doing so would be kind of like sending in the U.S. marines to deal with the inner cities. It would probably also move the Corps closer to being dictators in their sectors.
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Old October 23 2011, 10:38 PM   #1672
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

^ Well we know that was what Sinestro was charged with originally...being a dictator for Kouragar. He used his ring to unite his world under his rule and end the previous oppression. Now it is come full circle as he has to save his world again this time from the oppression of the Corps he created. Lame. The Manhunters were more the group you are describing anyways. They were much more militarized than the Corps is.
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Old October 24 2011, 12:32 AM   #1673
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

C_Miller wrote: View Post
JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Wereghost wrote: View Post
Hard to say. The pre-Flashpoint Batman was probably around late 30s (or early 40s going by this estimate). Batman does seem pretty much unchanged, with the exception of things like his relationship with Catwoman. The Killing Joke still happened (3 years previously) and so did all of the Robins. (Dick Grayson and Tim Drake are confirmed by name, and Batman makes a quip to Batwoman about sidekicks going insane.) I reckon that that he's within a few years either side of 35.
The numbers never make sense, it's pointless trying to add them up in a logical sense - he's whatever age they want him to be.
Agreed. Grant Morrison's way of deflecting that line of questioning is that it doesn't matter because they aren't real people. Ages don't matter as much as the stories and the characterizations.
Grant is wise. The bean counter mentality that pervades many fandoms is not a positive thing.
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Old October 24 2011, 04:19 AM   #1674
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Well, I was buying one DC title occasionally before the relaunch, now I'm buying five or six...monthly, so far.

Saying that the writing on the pre-relaunch titles was not weaker than Marvel is damning with faint praise.

The simple, direct writing style of the new books that I've been reading is very appealing when it works.
My point in comparing it to Marvel is that Marvel was still profitable and outselling DC even though their books were as all over the place (with things such as endless crossovers and BIG SUMMER EVENTS!). People who want to read a Superman comic might see it and then realize that in order to understand what is going on, they will have to read 15 other issues from various series, to which they'd say "Fuck that".

Beyond the event stuff, while of course quality varied, most of the DC series were simple and direct. There really isn't a difference in the writing quality before or after the reboot (ymmv).

Thing was, with the exception of Batman, DC's characters were not really in the mainstream mindset the way Marvel's was and were not going to be anytime soon. If a new Iron Man movie came out, old fans/kids/curious readers are likely more interested in picking up a random issue. DC needed to do something to raise awareness and pull out a head for a change.

Doing a reboot where you didn't need to know nothing to get back into their characters did the trick, I dare say, marvelously. It will only be a short matter of time before DC runs into the same crossover, what the fuck is going on problems they had before. Just wait until next summer's BIG EVENT! (cuz, you just know there will be one) and the numerous tie-in issues.
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Old October 24 2011, 04:43 AM   #1675
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Thing was, with the exception of Batman, DC's characters were not really in the mainstream mindset the way Marvel's was and were not going to be anytime soon.
Are you serious? Do you not realize how well known Superman/Wonder Woman/Batman or even Aquaman for that matter are to the mainstream audience?

Iron Man and the build up to the Avengers may have helped Marvel in the eye of the mainstream, but with exception to Spider-Man, they are really nothing compared to DC's Trinity.
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Old October 24 2011, 05:07 AM   #1676
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

^Sorry, I guess I should have been more clear. I was referring in terms of sales. The Bat-books (and Green Lantern, interestingly enough) were doing well in sales. Superman, Wonder Woman, and the rest, not as well when compared to their counterparts at Marvel.

But, your comment does help what I was trying to get at. While characters like Superman and Wonder Woman are very well known, there have been very little properties out there to help bring these characters back into people's faces to the point where they would go "Yeah, I want to buy a Superman comic." True, you had the Justice League cartoon, but that's long since ended and the DC-related cartoon shows have focused primarily on Batman.
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Old October 24 2011, 05:29 AM   #1677
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Sales of comics have almost nothing to do with the visibility of the property in other media.

Iron Man sales are strong not because of the movie, but because it's tied in strongly with the rest of the Marvel Universe (such as Dark Reign and now Fear Itself) and because it's some of Matt Fraction's best writing.

Likewise Thor is because of the new #1 and Olivier Coipel. Captain America also because of the relaunch and because of artist Steve McNiven.

It's very simple. Television and movie viewers simply do not translate into more comic book readers. It may once have, but that is in the past.
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Old October 24 2011, 02:04 PM   #1678
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Why did they have those new #1s with Cap and Thor? Because of their respective movies that came out around that time. You can't deny that Marvel characters have had an heightened awareness much more than DC characters over the past ten years.

If it was pure quality that was getting people to buy, then how come highly regarded runs such as Paul Cornell's Action Comics or Bryan Miller's Batgirl were not nearly doing as well anything Marvel was publishing. Especially in regards to AC, which is a Superman book. If Superman was that much still in the forefront of the public mindset, shouldn't his related books be rivaling things like Cap, Thor, or Iron Man?

DC has kept most of the same writers and artists for the reboot. Clearly, they were not upset over their employee's work.

I'm not saying other media was the only reason Marvel was out preforming DC, but it definitely was a major contributing factor in bringing readers back.
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Old October 24 2011, 02:08 PM   #1679
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
However My Name is legion, consider all the dirt bags out there after a pay off that they are looking for some mark to shake down. If they had pictures of Bruce Wayne diddling a 12 year old, they'd be set for life.
I think we're assuming for the sake of argument that such pictures don't exist.
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Old October 24 2011, 02:12 PM   #1680
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Close....

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