TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

[Ln X]

Damn... your good TheGodBen, really good. You considering issues I never even thought about in Past Prologue, I tip my hat to you sir in awed respect.

[Son of Quark]

Severed Fingers wrote:

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I never really saw Garak as coming onto Bashir, which is odd because I'm gay and I always see homosexual subtext when there was never intended to be any. But my perception of him was impaired again because I saw season one after I'd seen 2-4. Or maybe more, I have trouble remembering a decade ago. I can barely remember yesterday.

Whether he is or not, he's Garak, and he's pretty amazing. I agree that this episode isn't the best showcase for him, but it was a pretty decent follow-up to Emissary.

I never saw that or even thought about it. My wife usually picks up on those things big time and she never did either. I never thought of Garak coming on to Bashir, I always thought Bashir an idealistic young man, fantasizing about being a spy, and Garak taking a liking to him and also fucking with him. It seemed like Garak liked messing with Bashir's mind at times.

[Deranged Nasat]

Son of Quark wrote:

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I always thought Bashir an idealistic young man, fantasizing about being a spy, and Garak taking a liking to him and also fucking with him.

Perhaps a rather unfortunate choice of words, there.

[flemm]

Past Prologue is a really strong episode. There are times in season one where I don't really feel like I'm watching DS9 yet, but not here.

This despite a basically gratuitous cameo from TNG characters.

[Son of Quark]

Deranged Nasat wrote:

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Perhaps a rather unfortunate choice of words, there.

You're right. Garak liked messing with Bashir's mind what I meant.

[Deranged Nasat]

Son of Quark wrote:

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You're right. Garak liked messing with Bashir's mind what I meant.

Don't worry, that was quite clear. I just found it amusing. Probably just being a little immature.

[Seven of Five]

flemm wrote:

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Past Prologue is a really strong episode. There are times in season one where I don't really feel like I'm watching DS9 yet, but not here.

This despite a basically gratuitous cameo from TNG characters.

Ugh, I hated Lursa and B'Etor in this episode. They just didn't need to be there at all. DS9 grew stronger the more it relied on what made it unique (Bajoran politics, interesting characters), instead of turning to old TNG crutches such as anomoly/forehead of the week, and random TNG guest stars.

[Distorted Humor]

Every time I watch it, I am surprised on how good Past Prologue is.

[The Dominion]

Severed Fingers wrote:

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Ugh, I hated Lursa and B'Etor in this episode. They just didn't need to be there at all. DS9 grew stronger the more it relied on what made it unique (Bajoran politics, interesting characters), instead of turning to old TNG crutches such as anomoly/forehead of the week, and random TNG guest stars.

They didn't do a whole lot though, so I liked the in and out reference.

[Son of Quark]

Deranged Nasat wrote:

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Don't worry, that was quite clear. I just found it amusing. Probably just being a little immature.

I'm immature as hell. My wife says I act like a 2 year old...

[TheGodBen]

Severed Fingers wrote:

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I never really saw Garak as coming onto Bashir, which is odd because I'm gay and I always see homosexual subtext when there was never intended to be any. But my perception of him was impaired again because I saw season one after I'd seen 2-4. Or maybe more, I have trouble remembering a decade ago. I can barely remember yesterday.

I'm in the same boat as you, I only saw this episode after watching the rest of the series so I never saw the gay subtext, although I did feel that something was off about the performance. I didn't get that Garak was coming on to Bashir until I read that snippet from Andrew Robinson. But just look at the comments on this clip, a lot of people out there clearly picked up on it.

My personal explanation for it is that Garak assumed that Bashir was gay and hit on him in order to have a way in with the command staff, and when he realised that Bashir wasn't gay he cut it out. I don't think that Garak was gay, straight, bi, or pan, but that he was willing to swing whatever way he needed to in order to achieve his aims.


Speaking of "Andrew Robinson". I now have a funny image of Garak staring at an upside down sign in Manchester and thinking that Cardassians would never make such a mistake.

[The Dominion]

That scene is priceless if you look at it like that.

Personally, I looked at it from several angles at first watch. I couldn't decide if Garak was a spy, a homicidal psychopath looking for a victim, hitting on Bashir, or all three at the same time. And then I had cycles of theories going by the end of the first season.

Such an awesome character.

[Sykonee]

While we're on the topic of 'Garak Revelations', I honestly couldn't tell if he was a dude or a gal for a while there - I'm talking at least 3 or 4 episodes worth. Robinson played him so asexually, plus some of his outfits didn't do his 'moobs' any favors.

I mean, I was pretty sure he was a guy, but sometimes...

[Nerys Ghemor]

I think that Garak was likely gay or bisexual. However, I am not sure what his degree of interest in Bashir really was, in that way--whether he used behavior that could be taken as sexual advances as a means of throwing Bashir off balance, or if there was anything there.

As for Bashir, I see nothing that suggests any interest in men. One would expect that someone as observant as an Obsidian Order agent would notice that. Which leads me back to the deliberately unsettling/manipulation theory, a ploy to keep Bashir guessing about Garak's objectives.

[Seven of Five]

TheGodBen wrote:

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My personal explanation for it is that Garak assumed that Bashir was gay and hit on him in order to have a way in with the command staff, and when he realised that Bashir wasn't gay he cut it out. I don't think that Garak was gay, straight, bi, or pan, but that he was willing to swing whatever way he needed to in order to achieve his aims.

Yeah I can get on board with that. Spies would do anything to get closer to confidential information, so Garak would be totally willing to do whatever was necessary.