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Old October 15 2011, 01:41 PM   #3616
Admiral_Young
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Indeed. As always...
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Old October 15 2011, 01:44 PM   #3617
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Venosferatu wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
What kind of weights does a Kryptonian need to push to get these muscles?
If one were to assume he were genetically predisposed to have such a build, and had what amounts to steroids naturally produced in his body ...
So where's the Kryptonian Roid Rage?
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Old October 16 2011, 12:16 AM   #3618
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
The thing about the Clark/Superman nobody-sees-through-the-disguise-thing is, we, the audience, know it, of course. But why would anyone in-universe think Superman had a secret identity? He's not wearing a mask.

And so, that journalist with the glasses looks a lot like Superman. But could it be him? Seriously, though, why would Superman, of all people, work at a newspaper. That's like, I don't know, seeing someone who looks like Matt Damon working in an office. Yeah, he looks like him, but there's no way. Maybe some even think about it enough to tell him "Hey, you know, you look a lot like Matt Damon", but he just says: "Yeah, I get that a lot. Even thought about doing some look-alike appearances, but I got little enough leisure time as it is."
The thing is in real life it is so easy to recognize people with their glasses off. It is one of the weakest disguises in superhero lore.
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Old October 16 2011, 01:37 AM   #3619
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Space Therapist wrote: View Post
Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
The thing about the Clark/Superman nobody-sees-through-the-disguise-thing is, we, the audience, know it, of course. But why would anyone in-universe think Superman had a secret identity? He's not wearing a mask.

And so, that journalist with the glasses looks a lot like Superman. But could it be him? Seriously, though, why would Superman, of all people, work at a newspaper. That's like, I don't know, seeing someone who looks like Matt Damon working in an office. Yeah, he looks like him, but there's no way. Maybe some even think about it enough to tell him "Hey, you know, you look a lot like Matt Damon", but he just says: "Yeah, I get that a lot. Even thought about doing some look-alike appearances, but I got little enough leisure time as it is."
The thing is in real life it is so easy to recognize people with their glasses off. It is one of the weakest disguises in superhero lore.
Somehow I get the feeling you really didn't get my point.

It's not about the glasses. It's about "Why the heck would Superman live as a normal man working as a journalist". Remember, to anyone in-universe (Silver Age-Lois aside), Superman has no secret identity.

John Byrne even did a story in which Lex Luthor has a computer working on the relation between Superman and Clark Kent, and when the computer tells him that they are the same person, he trashes the computer because to him it makes no sense that someone as powerful as Superman would disguise himself as a normal man.
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Old October 16 2011, 02:01 AM   #3620
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

You know, as much as I liked that story as a one-off, it struck me as increasingly silly that Luthor never followed up on it as years became decades.

On the other hand, you could make a good argument that even if Lex Luthor did know, it wouldn't be particularly useful information. It's not like knowing Batman is Bruce Wayne, where you can destroy his supporting infrastructure or attack him when he's weak, like Bane did. Superman is never weak.

You blow up Clark Kent's apartment building or the Daily Planet, you just have an ashy invulnerable man floating in the sky. You kill Lois Lane, all you've done is remove any thought of restraint from the most powerful person on Earth. This assuming you could even sneak up on him in the first place, which you couldn't.

I guess you could try to destroy Clark Kent's life, but only to a pathetic degree. Like, is it very plausible that anyone is going to try to fine the Planet for paying an illegal alien, revoke a marriage license for being entered into under a false name, or commence deportation proceedings for a living god? Even if that worked, all you've accomplished is exiling Kent and Lane to the North Pole where they can devote their entire lives to fucking you up. If anything, letting Clark Kent exist is good for Luthor, since the time off Superman needs to be Clark, hold a job (however tenuously), and somehow maintain his marriage (despite being a terrible husband) at least levels the field a little bit.
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Old October 16 2011, 02:04 AM   #3621
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
Space Therapist wrote: View Post
Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
The thing about the Clark/Superman nobody-sees-through-the-disguise-thing is, we, the audience, know it, of course. But why would anyone in-universe think Superman had a secret identity? He's not wearing a mask.

And so, that journalist with the glasses looks a lot like Superman. But could it be him? Seriously, though, why would Superman, of all people, work at a newspaper. That's like, I don't know, seeing someone who looks like Matt Damon working in an office. Yeah, he looks like him, but there's no way. Maybe some even think about it enough to tell him "Hey, you know, you look a lot like Matt Damon", but he just says: "Yeah, I get that a lot. Even thought about doing some look-alike appearances, but I got little enough leisure time as it is."
The thing is in real life it is so easy to recognize people with their glasses off. It is one of the weakest disguises in superhero lore.
Somehow I get the feeling you really didn't get my point.

It's not about the glasses. It's about "Why the heck would Superman live as a normal man working as a journalist". Remember, to anyone in-universe (Silver Age-Lois aside), Superman has no secret identity.

John Byrne even did a story in which Lex Luthor has a computer working on the relation between Superman and Clark Kent, and when the computer tells him that they are the same person, he trashes the computer because to him it makes no sense that someone as powerful as Superman would disguise himself as a normal man.

It wasn't the first time something went over my head.

You do make a good point.
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Old October 16 2011, 02:31 PM   #3622
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
You know, as much as I liked that story as a one-off, it struck me as increasingly silly that Luthor never followed up on it as years became decades.
I think Byrne did it for characterization purpose on Luthor. The man who is so hungry for power he is so blinded he can't imagine anyone wanting to be someone less powerful.

It became rubbish when the editors and writers forgot about this story when it was actually still canon. When Luthor became president, he found out about Clark being Superman. The previous story was never referenced, when it really should have been.

On the other hand, you could make a good argument that even if Lex Luthor did know, it wouldn't be particularly useful information. It's not like knowing Batman is Bruce Wayne, where you can destroy his supporting infrastructure or attack him when he's weak, like Bane did. Superman is never weak.

You blow up Clark Kent's apartment building or the Daily Planet, you just have an ashy invulnerable man floating in the sky. You kill Lois Lane, all you've done is remove any thought of restraint from the most powerful person on Earth. This assuming you could even sneak up on him in the first place, which you couldn't.

I guess you could try to destroy Clark Kent's life, but only to a pathetic degree. Like, is it very plausible that anyone is going to try to fine the Planet for paying an illegal alien, revoke a marriage license for being entered into under a false name, or commence deportation proceedings for a living god? Even if that worked, all you've accomplished is exiling Kent and Lane to the North Pole where they can devote their entire lives to fucking you up. If anything, letting Clark Kent exist is good for Luthor, since the time off Superman needs to be Clark, hold a job (however tenuously), and somehow maintain his marriage (despite being a terrible husband) at least levels the field a little bit.
Which is probably why President Luthor never used that information, even before Superman erased that memory of his.
Just read the Daredevil book "Born again", and think of Superman in the role of Matt Murdock. That would have been ugly.

Although, I think it actually was done in some way.


Man, I miss Joe Kelly on Superman. He actually got what Superman was about. Not many writers in the past two decades actually did, even though working on the character.

Space Therapist wrote: View Post
You do make a good point.

Thank you.
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Old October 16 2011, 02:50 PM   #3623
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Only Joe Kelly I know is the guy who wrote Supergirl. That guy could barely string two word balloons together and have them make sense. Also he penned the phrase "red wavelength UVB lights," which is the dumbest phrase ever uttered by human beings since Isaac Newton put a prism in a windowsill. But! Better than Jeph Loeb.

Also that spoiler sort of butts up against the details of the Max Lord situation. Incidentally, I know I've said this before, but his condemnation of Wonder Woman for not letting herself be heat vision super-sped Krypton-punched to death may be the unsung lowest moment in Superman history. Even if by that point they had retconned his execution of three unarmed prisoners, it's still unbelievably bad.

P.S. Born Again was so great. Man, talk about missing people, I miss David Mazzuchelli doing superhero work. Or just drawing in that style. Have you seen Asterios Polyp? Looks like Marjane Satrapi drew it. People did not like Persepolis because of its pretty picutres, Dave! Just because you can still work miracles with panel layout and graphic design does not give you license to stop drawing things well! And indie comics do not have to look like rushed New Yorker cartoons! Berlin is maybe the best drawn non-J.H. Williams comic of the last decade. Jason Lutes would never sacrifice the awesomeness of his art, why did you?
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Old October 16 2011, 05:11 PM   #3624
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
John Byrne even did a story in which Lex Luthor has a computer working on the relation between Superman and Clark Kent, and when the computer tells him that they are the same person, he trashes the computer because to him it makes no sense that someone as powerful as Superman would disguise himself as a normal man.
Yeah, Byrne made a point of that in interviews - why the hell would Superman ever acknowledge to anyone that he spent much of his life in street clothes trying to pass as a normal human being? It would just make his disguise that much more challenging.

In the final analysis, Superman's "secret identity" is a storytelling conceit - you accept as a given that it works, and if you don't there's no amount of explanation or rationalization (including Byrne's own "Superman constantly vibrates his face at superspeed to blur his likeness" foolishness) that will make it plausible.

I mean, we buy that he flies and that bullets bounce off him. Heck, we go along with the notion that Batman can swing down out of nowhere to kick guns out of a couple of guys' hands while clinging one-handed to a cord which is the apparent diameter of one of Bruce Wayne's patent leather formal shoelaces. Why not accept the glasses?
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Old October 16 2011, 05:28 PM   #3625
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
I mean, we buy that he flies and that bullets bounce off him. Heck, we go along with the notion that Batman can swing down out of nowhere to kick guns out of a couple of guys' hands while clinging one-handed to a cord which is the apparent diameter of one of Bruce Wayne's patent leather formal shoelaces. Why not accept the glasses?
Because one is technological/physical, and the other is social. Everyone knows that (s)he would recognize the guy despite the glasses.
Not everyone knows what material that cord is made of or what Bruce Wayne's martial art skills are. Bullets bouncing of Supes are also because of his invincible skin, however that might work.
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Old October 16 2011, 07:24 PM   #3626
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

You want some science? I can go to the titty bar, make it rain science and my currency will be accepted. Lois Lane has prosopagnosia. That's science wedged between your hip and your g-string, baby. But you don't really believe a man can fly, do you?
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Old October 16 2011, 07:31 PM   #3627
Kai "the spy"
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Only Joe Kelly I know is the guy who wrote Supergirl. That guy could barely string two word balloons together and have them make sense. Also he penned the phrase "red wavelength UVB lights," which is the dumbest phrase ever uttered by human beings since Isaac Newton put a prism in a windowsill. But! Better than Jeph Loeb.
Haven't actually read the Supergirl comics, but apparently, it's the same Joe Kelly. Can't judge his work on Supergirl, but his work on Action Comics and JLA was brilliant. He got the Clark Kent as a writer, utterly fantastic superhero stuff, and he could actually do a Superman who really was inspiring, not just one saying he had to inspire.

Also that spoiler sort of butts up against the details of the Max Lord situation. Incidentally, I know I've said this before, but his condemnation of Wonder Woman for not letting herself be heat vision super-sped Krypton-punched to death may be the unsung lowest moment in Superman history. Even if by that point they had retconned his execution of three unarmed prisoners, it's still unbelievably bad.
As much as I like Greg Rucka, especially his work on WW, but that stuff really only served to set up Infinite Crisis. Would have been one thing if the big three actually did drift apart over the years and the writers wanting to work it out, but that wasn't there when they started out, they just set it up. And to do that they really had to twist the characters.
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Old October 16 2011, 07:44 PM   #3628
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
You want some science? I can go to the titty bar, make it rain science and my currency will be accepted. Lois Lane has prosopagnosia. That's science wedged between your hip and your g-string, baby. But you don't really believe a man can fly, do you?
Actually, something about Supermans aura causing temporary prosopagnosia was suggested in one of the comics, I believe. It's like dreaming of people, you can't remember the faces.

Doesn't explain photographs of Superman, though.
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Old October 16 2011, 08:27 PM   #3629
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Willing suspension of disbelief. You just have to go with it.
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Old October 17 2011, 12:18 AM   #3630
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Because one is technological/physical, and the other is social.
That is a completely unpersuasive and silly attempt to draw a meaningless distinction.

You don't buy the disguise? Avoid the comics, TV, and movie versions of the character then. All of them. Clark uses glasses to disguise himself, period. He always has.
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